User talk:Johnuniq

I'll reply to messages here, unless requested otherwise.

Index of stuff

Comments re free speech
Jagged progress • more • genre articles
Links to highbeam.com from dumps of external links • earlier • more Credo • JSTOR results • JSTOR + Cochrane January 2015
Gregorian serial date template
Analysis of EL dump using Amazon S3 very interesting methods from GabrielF
Module:Number at Hindi Wikipedia request from Siddhartha Ghai
Discussion with pointer to problem re Nagle's algorithm that should be fixed

They don't seem to have noticed...

...that you and I rewrote the thing. Yet the debate lumbers on. E Eng 03:34, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wondered what they were talking about but I thought it wiser not to look. Maybe later. You rewrote it and will get full blame, as normal. Johnuniq (talk) 03:45, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Assistance

Recently, the contributor that has been unblocked for their edits on the Greater Houston and List of Texas metropolitan areas has returned with the same contributions again, tagged as manual reverts. - TheLionHasSeen (talk) 12:59, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I handled that after seeing your ping at ANI. Johnuniq (talk) 02:37, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, welcome you to discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Hate_group#Our_#Wikipedia_is_not_one's_Political_Instrument.

My heart is bleeding from English Wikipedia Censorship. My ancestors, who were imprisioned to labor and concentration camps because of their nationality, ethnicity and views, also would not approve your totalitarian informational policy of global source for the sake of polarisation and mobilization of population within one country before their local elections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:9E01:740:A4A5:22F0:4853:5FB3 (talk) 05:34, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're not alone. Hundreds of editors battle over article content every day, and half of them are dissatisfied. My protection of Hate group was standard since edit warring to win a disagreement is not permitted. Rather than leaving a hard-to-parse rant at Talk:Hate group, it would be more useful to propose a change and explain which reliable sources justify the change. Johnuniq (talk) 07:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did it there there (you see an unjust decline of it based on one thesis) and now there there. Hope you might help me, because english is not my first neither my native fiddle I used to play and think. But I like the truth, all points and information outside politics. 2600:1700:9E01:740:448C:3DC0:8562:CCF9 (talk) 19:41, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you see this?

I think it's pretty obvious by now which side of the infobox debate is coming out with any dignity at the Sinatra talk page. Somewhat predictably, the RfC has become a festering echo chamber of incivility, righteousness and OWN, at the hands of those on the pro-side of the debate. I must admit, I unwatched the page after my last edit as I grew bored of it, but I've been told over email of this comment, made by someone who is clearly a banned individual, who has less than ten edits to their history. For a group of people, who invested the time and money to write something for the benefit of others, to be described as "amateurs" is a kick in the teeth. It's no good pinging anyone from the failed, previous ArbCom committee, as they considered me to be the problem. But I think the current cess pool at Sinatra is proof that this problem still very much exists. Oh, and funny how HAL333 didn't hit the troll with a civility warning, just a hand-wringing comment about the comment "not being fair". It took an IP to dish this warning out. Cassianto^Talk 18:14, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Care to answer? I mean, you've been active for a good few many hours now. I also don't like being ignored - you are the fourth such administrator to have done this. Do I take this deafening silence to mean that you endorse this kind of personal attack? Cassianto^Talk 10:37, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've been playing with something off-wiki (and doing some work). You would be right to think that I have not looked forward to replying but I was going to. I had a look at your links. Given the naively open approach at Wikipedia, there is nothing that can be done about the troll at this stage. They might be a new editor who could eventually do something useful (although their most recent interest is, um, not encouraging). At any rate, there is no admin action that can be taken. Most people are really tired of the infobox issue and the only way to stay sane is to avoid following it. As confirmed daily at Wikipedia, there are a lot of dumb people so it does not make sense to get upset by anything they say. Just go through the motions by putting in a couple of comments at each "discussion" (copy/paste will do), then ignore them. Johnuniq (talk) 11:12, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Johnuniq, thanks. The truth is, everyone is sick and tired of the infobox arguments – none more so than me. Don’t be under any illusion that those who oppose the uniform usage of infoboxes across the site enjoy these arguments. We don’t. We’d all rather be improving the project; but when you have people like Levivich, HAL333, Leprevierk and others, who as far as I can tell are no more than gnomes and dramah board regulars who enjoy opening up discussion after discussion on pages that we’ve all worked hard on, purely to disrupt, it becomes difficult to improve things and keeps us in the rut.

I’ve asked no-less than four admins to look in on the Sinatra talk page to assess the incivility breaches and bludgeoning that has been going on there and on other editor’s talk pages, but this has been ignored. Had this of been me, of course, I’d have been blocked in minutes.

But what fuels these arguments is the reluctance by admins and ArbCom to do anything meaningful about it. Bishonen was good, for a year or so, dishing out DS alerts, but she soon became disillusioned by it all. I don't blame you all for a minute, but all the time these people are allowed to disrupt the project, the more this problem is going to fester.

Let me make this abundantly clear: ArbCom have handled this diabolically. This has been brought to their attention two times and on both occasions they have failed in their duties as arbitrators. A few years ago, a case opened against me, called “Incivility in Infobox discussions”. I say it was about me, as I was the only one to walk away with any restrictions, despite the fact that there was incivility on both sides; it’s just that I happened to be on the opposite side of the debate to those on the "Impartial" committee. The “incivility in infobox discussions” part of the case was not dealt with at all and those on the other side of the debate now openly go around causing trouble, opening up discussion after discussion, adding boxes to well-known, contentious articles, chucking around PAs, abusing the “thank” button by thanking people for edits made five years ago to infoboxes, in a creepy “I’m watching, and I’m aware of what you've been up to” kind of way.

There is also an unprecedented amount of “new accounts” that pop up at the time of an RfC; sleeper accounts that suddenly become active when such discussions take place, and banned users who due to the antiquated SPI technology Wikipedia has, come and go as they please. It’s a joke. Cassianto^Talk 14:47, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you are describing standard operating procedure at Wikipedia. If you had experienced Gamergate controversy and the appalling WP:ARBGG arbitration case, you would feel that the infobox issue had been handled well. The condensed version of gamergate is that a bunch of gaming trolls abused female writers in a shocking manner, then tried to use Wikipedia to justify their attacks with dozens of new and returned users. The good editors who fought them off ended up with topic bans or site bans. It's all over now, but the stench of that arb case lingers. Arbcom is useless for cases where rational judgment is needed. All they do is count the number of bad words and edit warring incidents from each side, then sanction by the numbers (with rare exceptions). They are not authorized to use their brains and declare that permitting trolls to pick off anti-infobox articles and editors one at a time is obviously bad for Wikipedia. They did authorize discretionary sanctions but applying them needs to be justified and it would be very hard for an admin to sanction a new editor simply for stating their opinion. The only good way to respond to that situation is to disengage—make a couple of comments for each new eruption but ignore the day-to-day arguments. Yes, it is a bad joke. Johnuniq (talk) 03:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ezra Miller controversy

Why did you remove ezra Miller controversy section in its entirety? Him choking a woman to the floor almost got him kicked off one of his biggest projects to date and created a huge backlash amongst fans, its a big moment in his career, it needs to remain Eglued (talk) 12:00, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You might be referring to my revert at Ezra Miller of diff from 27 July 2020. Wikipedia articles do not record every incident, and certainly do not record everything that surfaces on social media. Further, per WP:BLP, a source saying someone appeared to do something bad is definitely unacceptable. Discussion should occur on the talk page of the article. Johnuniq (talk) 00:34, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Module:Wiktionary

Hey, as the creator of Module:Wiktionary, are you planning on continuing work on this? --Gonnym (talk) 14:42, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: I was going to deny any connection with Module:Wiktionary but I see my name all over it. I must have suppressed memory of Template talk:Wiktionary (the whole page, permalink) because I asked some simple questions (and at MOS) but got nowhere. @Erutuon: Do you have any thoughts? I guess the module is now dead because no one can decide whether certain words should be in italics. I don't have any plans for the module but would be happy to fix anything needed if it were to be used. Johnuniq (talk) 01:49, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Reason I'm asking as I'm in the process of doing cleaning and sorting the language-related templates and modules and if this isn't being used, I was thinking of starting a RM later to move a module to that name. So if it isn't used and you want it, could you move it to your module sandbox? --Gonnym (talk) 08:26, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Gonnym: OK, I moved it. Johnuniq (talk) 09:26, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – September 2020

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2020).

Administrator changes

Eddie891

Angela • Jcw69 • Just Chilling • Philg88 • Viajero

CheckUser changes

SQL

Guideline and policy news

Following a request for comment, the minimum length for site ban discussions was increased to 72 hours, up from 24.
A request for comment is ongoing to determine whether paid editors must or should use the articles for creation process.
A request for comment is open to resolve inconsistencies between the draftification and alternative to deletion processes.

Arbitration

A request for comment is open to provide an opportunity to amend the structure, rules, and procedures of the 2020 English Wikipedia Arbitration Committee election and to resolve any issues not covered by existing rules.
An open request for comment asks whether active Arbitrators may serve on the Trust and Safety Case Review Committee or Ombudsman commission.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Footnote group

Template:Footnote group has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page.Manabimasu (talk) 15:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification

With no reference to its topic, may I ask how this was a violation? It is my understanding of BANEX that reporting/proving an IBAN violation is allowed but continuing to harp on the topic is not. Did the report on the administrator's talk page cancel out the retracted community-wide report at WP:AN? Dark knight 2149 04:00, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Darkknight2149: Exactly what is and what isn't a violation of an interaction ban is hard to pin down. The history appears to be that there was a possible/probable violation by an opponent where they ranted but did not name anyone in April 2020. You reported that to an admin, also in April. The admin advised letting it go. Now the opponent has been indeffed regarding an unrelated melt down and is appealing. My feeling is that it is inappropriate for anyone interaction banned with the appellant to add dirt that is five months old and which is not a direct violation (just a rant), and which was addressed even if informally. By all means seek other opinions but doing that to add dirt to your opponent's appeal may look off-color to others as well as myself. Johnuniq (talk) 04:10, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A comment at Talk:Day-care sex-abuse hysteria

Even if Firejuggler86 (talk · contribs) means well here, just the fact that he uses the word nigger like that seems like the post should be removed. And, of course, WP:Not a forum applies. I haven't yet read that discussion or looked into what type of editor Firejuggler86 is. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 08:54, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Firejuggler86: I read your comment in the diff above. Please do not reply to old comments (that was over six years old!). Article talk pages are to discuss actionable proposals to improve the article based on reliable sources. The comments you replied to were mini-rants by passing people and even if they were new there would be little benefit from replying to them. I can see that your use of the n-word was appropriate and your comment was well founded but it is advisable to avoid such an approach because that terminology is highly charged and very likely to cause offense to some people even if intended as a parody of a killer's rationale. I archived the talk page without your comment to focus future use of that talk page on its purpose. Johnuniq (talk) 09:22, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for helping with that. I did consider the editor's use of that term inappropriate, but I didn't want to come across as overreacting with regard to whatever I would have stated about it in the edit history while reverting. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 23:34, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]