Talk:Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse

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Ships

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Dali (container ship)

currently redirects to Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse. 🐦DrWho42👻 08:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship was built in 2015, so MV Dali (2015) is the correct title if anyone wants to write an article. Mjroots (talk) 09:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MDTA workers

Just for clarification on the sourcing on the 20 MDTA workers: this came from a representative who spoke to the rescue operations officer on scene who relayed that to the incident commander over Baltimore Fire Radio traffic. Don't have a link for it, obviously, but felt it was a valid contribution 69.115.41.34 (talk) 08:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship owner, etc

The Dali seems to be owned by Stellar Marine LLC, not sure where they're based. It seems to be managed by Oceanbulk Container Management SA, which is located in Athens, Greece. — Hippietrail (talk) 08:54, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Odd. Unsure where Stellar is coming from, I don't see any detail on the company. Balticshipping seems to be saying that the Dali is both owned and managed by Oceanbulk. [1]https://www.balticshipping.com/vessel/imo/9697428 Surreal12 (talk) 08:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The place I found that info had the flag of the Marshall Islands, but didn't mention the country otherwise. I'm pretty sure that's another popular country that ships are "flagged as", so that might only represent where it was flagged before being Singapore flagged as it is now. The 2015 video I linked to below clearly shows "Majuro" on the stern, which is the capital of the Marshall Islands. — Hippietrail (talk) 09:03, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, I've just seen it. Found them as well on the Marshall island corporate registry. Annulled in 2019, could possibly explain why I'm seeing Oceanbulk as the owner. Surreal12 (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Continuing....now I'm getting sources saying that a company name Synergy Marine Group manages the ship, and others saying they own it. This is from the guardian and cbs news atm.

[2]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/francis-scott-key-bridge-baltimore-collapse-container-ship/

[3]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/26/baltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapses-after-boat-collision Surreal12 (talk) 09:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I'd hunt in Singapore news. First thing of interest I found says "Dali is listed on VesselsValue as owned by Grace Ocean Investment and registered in Singapore. That seems to be a Hong Kong company.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hippietrail (talk • contribs) 09:29, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

News reports are starting to mention Grace Ocean Investment though at least one is saying it's a Singapore company... — Hippietrail (talk)

They're all saying Grace Ocean is Singapore based now. There seems to either be both an HK and a Singapore company with this same name, or perhaps the same company is based in both cities? Can find good links for both that are unrelated to the current news, but so far can't find anything linking HK & SG. — Hippietrail (talk) 09:42, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2015 video of the Dali may be of interest

I found this video of the ship from nine years ago when trying to find info about the companies that own and manage it. Might be of use or at least of interest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfntNXBZurU Hippietrail (talk) 08:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship fire

As the ship is reported to have caught fire and sunk, is it possible that the fire was the cause of the collision, and not the result of it? Obviously the NTSB will carry out an investigation, and any info inserted into the article needs to be backed up by reliable sources. Mjroots (talk) 09:40, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AP retracted the sinking in its latest update. Borgenland (talk) 09:44, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some YouTube comments from people that seem to know ships were saying black smoke was pouring out of the ship before the collision but hypothesizing that can happen by putting the engines in full reverse power. — Hippietrail (talk) 09:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship is still afloat as of 5:59am EDT on the StreamTime stream. (Doubt we can use it as a source, though.) --Super Goku V (talk) 10:00, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pilot?

Has anyone found a source saying whether the ship was under a harbor pilot's control, or its master's? I would assume pilot's, given the location, but haven't seen any mention of this yet. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per BBC News, two pilots were onboard. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Channel and harbor

This may be obvious, but the article should mention that the channel is now blocked and the harbor is effectively closed. The number of trapped vessels should be added as soon as an RS is available.

Thanks Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 10:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll track this via Maritime Executive, etc. It's not in the same league as 2021 Suez Canal obstruction, but it's not chopped liver either. The insurance implications alone are enormous. kencf0618 (talk) 12:31, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cor, you'd think they'd get somebody out of bed for this.

https://mpa.maryland.gov/Pages/default.aspx

kencf0618 (talk) 12:44, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dolphins

At some point the fact that properly designed concrete dolphins surrounding the support structures would have prevented the collision should be added. Again, an RS will likely arrive soon on this topic.

Thanks. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 10:48, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's these (not a case of "cetacean needed"). Martinevans123 (talk) 10:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes

Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 10:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, the fiber-optic warning system like on the Queen Isabella Causeway in Texas would have alerted drivers. Elikser (talk) 11:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are dolphins at some distance on either side of the piers (not to mention Fort Carroll), but it appears that the ship skewed after it passed a dolphin. We will hear about all this in time. Acroterion (talk) 12:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, they're caissons or supports for power line pylons on the upstream side, somewhat wider than the bridge supports, so they aren't really dolphins for the bridge. Acroterion (talk) 12:31, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The structures on the north western side are power line supports. Cite: Belson, Dan (July 20, 2021). "Poles erected in Key Bridge power project". The Dundalk Eagle. Retrieved March 26, 2024. --Rob.au (talk) 12:34, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You were right the first time. The bridge dolphins were not much bigger than a tugboat, and the ship did slide past one. Note that the Sunshine Skyway Bridge has dolphins and large islands of riprap. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 12:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Images

Please can we NOT add copyvio images. There is one non-free image, which I think is useable for now. The NTSB will almost certainly open an investigation, which will lead to reports / news stories from them which will have useable imaged. For now, we need a bit of patience. Mjroots (talk) 11:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

		The Teamwork Barnstar
		Awarded to all who worked constructively to create and improve the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse article. Well done, everyone. Mjroots (talk) 11:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If this applies to you, feel free to copy to wherever you keep your barnstars. Mjroots (talk) 11:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of similar incidents

There is an article that lists bridge failures, which is quite large. Based on gathering similar incidents here, it seems like it might be worthwhile to create an article for the more specific list of boat-caused bridge failures. Elikser (talk) 11:54, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship article

I notice the ship now has a page. I am really not sure whether the ship merits its own article right now: There are certainly sources that could add to that article, but everything seems to be in context of this collapse and precedent with other major events indicates that there needs to be more coverage of the ship than there is now. ~UN6892 ^t_c 12:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ever Given appeared quite quickly, but that was a much more significant accident. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would be fine if the redirect to the his article was restored. I will note that the ship can be notable enough outside of the incident. --Super Goku V (talk) 12:37, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ship's loss of power before striking the bridge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM4nMhpQt7g At 1'30 in this video, you can observe that the ship appears to have lost all power (apparently) before striking the bridge... the power came back on a couple of seconds before striking, for it to be gone again as the bridge collapses on top of it. It's not very clear; I'm not sure I'm interpreting this video correctly.... More information will certainly come up as the story unfolds. 123.205.19.162 (talk) 12:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You may be right. The lights did not totally go out, but many were out for a total of about 12 seconds. The turn of the vessel toward the bridge happened during those 12 seconds, so a steering failure is plausible.

This is why I like to read the online NTSB accident reports. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 13:04, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS Based on the speed of collapse of that video compared to others, I suspect that 12 second estimate of mine might be inaccurate. I suspect the video of the blackout and collision was sped up. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 13:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Better image in lead

Brought up by removal of this note: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Francis_Scott_Key_Bridge_collapse&diff=prev&oldid=1215659603.

The current image is not free use but also not representative of the fact the entire bridge of the water collapsed due to the collison. I uploaded an image earlier to better depict the bridge but it was shot down as WP:COPYVIO. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 12:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ASmallMapleLeaf copyright respect comes first, especially on Wikimedia Commons, where only conmercially-usable content (under commercial CC or PD licenses) are permitted. English Wikipedia can host unfree images though, provided that the unfree images have complete fair use rationales and are complying with WP:Non-free content. JWilz12345 (Talk|Contrib's.) 13:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Number of reported injuries

@MIDI: I noticed that you took out the cn for the claim that two people were injured. The article does say that two people were rescued from the river, but it only says one was injured, while the other was not. It seems to me like we should be saying there was one injury (at least as of now). Gödel2200 (talk) 13:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As the person who added the figure, I applied common sense here. Despite walking away with 'no injuries', I think anyone bar The Hulk would walk away with at least a few cuts and bruises. ASmallMapleLeaf (talk) 13:08, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]