Talk:List of Christian denominations by number of members

Suggestion: Change List into Table(s)

This whole article would be a lot easier to read were it changed into a table, or series of tables. As it stands, it is very hard to compare figures between groups. Tables can be sorted automatically.

1.126.107.59 (talk) 16:23, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Catholics Are Not Christians

I'm not sure who the original editor of the list of Christian denominations but if you had of asked a Christian you would know that catholics are not nor have they ever been a part of what is considered "Christianity" by the world. Look up your history catholics are the "universal church." they seperated from the Followers of the Way in 90 AD under the leadership of Ignatius. They felt that he could lead the people better than asking Christ Jesus for guidance They started incorporating practices and items from other religions such as the rosary, (buddhism), and Mary becoming a god which is not according to the Bible. Unbeknownst to the regular pew member this was an incorporation of the worship of Isis. The picture that's supposed to be Mary and Jesus is actually a portrait of Isis and her son. Also the nuns and monks was also incorporated from buddhism.

Over time the catholics gained power and soon started persecuting and martyring Christians who were also called Followers of the Way as well as Jews. Most don't know they were there because unlike the catholics, and all of the rest who would come from the catholic church, they had no Church building." they fellowshipped in each other's houses or fields or, when the persecution became very wide spread, in fields and caves.

Over the years they became known as Backwoods Pentecostals and Jesus Only followers. Today a lot do have a building which is why people believe they are one of the newest when in fact they are the oldest, the true "Christians," according to the Bible. These are the Oneness Pentecostals also known as Apostolic or Holiness. They are ones who follow the Bible completely including how they dress and act. They are saved according to Mark 16:16&17, Acts 2 : 38, and Acts 10 : 44-48.

Responses

I have talked to many Christians & have found that in my personal experience, pretty much only Fundamentalists deny that Catholics are Christians. Catholics believe themselves to be Christians. As to Christians martyring Christians, well, one only has to look at the persecution of Quakers in colonial New England to see the fallacy & absurdity of that argument & of only applying it to Catholics.

I look askance at any who claim to represent the true religion. See the sections around Matthew 7:22: Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Please also see Matthew 7:1: Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Theological grounds aside, it is Wikipedia policy that governs here. You are proselytizing a point-of-view. Please see WP:NPOV to understand why that applies here.

Peaceray (talk) 05:56, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Catholics are clearly Christians. They are the main branch of Christianity. Moreover, I think it is fair to include in this list all those who consider themselves Christians, for instance including Mormons or Jehowah's Witnesses, despite their not considered Christians by other Christians. --Checco (talk) 08:29, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Words to Watch

Now while there is nothing wrong in principle with tagging a particular claim here with a caveat, I would ask why it is not used uniformly? The SSPX claim comes from HuffPo - yellow in WP:RS/P. So perhaps there is a basis to cast doubt on it. But 'claim' is a WP:WTW and should be used carefully. Is there a legal reason or allegation to the contrary? Furthermore, if we tag one number as a "claim" then we need to likewise tag all the self-sourced numbers. That is a lot here, most denominations track and report their own membership numbers. So I contend it is not neutral to tag SSPX as "claimed" without balancing the article altogether. Elizium23 (talk) 20:26, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Eastern Orthodoxy and Ukraine

The Orthodox Church of Ukraine belongs under the category "Non-universally recognized churches" because it is not accepted by most Orthodox churches. It is completely inappropriate to categorize the OCU as if it were a universally accepted Orthodox Church, when most of those churches do not accept it. Also, I suspect the claim that the OCU has 25 million members is inflated. No source is cited for that figure, and it's more than half of Ukraine's population. Nepsis2 (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Based on my faint familiarity with the Ukraine situation, I am inclined to agree with this. Only Constantinople and the Greek side are recognizing it right now. And, there may come a day when we need to delineate autocephalous Churches that are aligned with Constantinople, and those that are aligned with Moscow. They are beginning to come apart and draw a line down the middle. Elizium23 (talk) 02:04, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Based on 43.9% of (which?) population cited in the UOC article, and using 42,000,000 population altogether I come up with 18.44 million UOC members, or using 43.9% of only the Orthodox population, that would be 12 million members. Yes, the figure is inflated anyway you slice it. Elizium23 (talk) 02:17, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

User:Nepsis2 is right on the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. --Checco (talk) 17:11, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

I am not sure why you reverted my changes (1) MOS:HEADING says that links are not to be used in headings. I took them out for good reason. (2) This list is "by number of members" and so Protestantism goes below Eastern Orthodoxy, which is the second-largest church in the world. It should also probably be below Oriental Orthodoxy, a communion as large as Anglicanism. Elizium23 (talk) 20:29, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

(1) In this case, links are quite useful, indeed.

(2) Protestantism has more members than any other family, except Catholicism. --Checco (talk) 16:35, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

(1) we don't do that, no matter how you personally feel about their utility. (2) A "family" is not a denomination or a church. The Eastern Orthodox is the second-largest Church. Elizium23 (talk) 18:11, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Most importantly, when you want to change a long-established version of an article, you seek consensus first. Per Wikipedia:Consensus, "in discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit". (1) Links are necessary in this case. I would have no problem in removing sections and replacing them with bullet points, anyway. (2) This is an article on denominations, not churches per se, and it has always been ordered by branch/family from largest to smallest. --Checco (talk) 17:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, this is an article on denominations, and Protestantism is not a denomination. The ordering needs to change to conform with the stated topic of the article. If you want to change the topic, that is another discussion. Elizium23 (talk) 17:08, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

You are very confused and you do not understand how consensus work.

I have just received the following funny message from you in my talk page:

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be repeatedly reverting or undoing other editors' contributions at List of Christian denominations by number of members. Although this may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is known as "edit warring" and is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, as it often creates animosity between editors. Instead of reverting, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.

If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to lose their editing privileges. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to result in loss of your editing privileges. Thank you. Elizium23 (talk) 17:10, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I have been an editor of Wikipedia for virtually 15 years and I have edited this article for at least eight years. "Welcome" is quite inappropriate. Please not that you boldly edited the article and those edits were not upopposed. Thus, if you continue to upload your preferred version, it is you who is actually edit warring. I came to terms with User:Nepsis2. There is no reason why there should not be a compromise also between you and me. Please leave the established version and let's discuss. Surely Protestantism is not a denomination, it is a branch of Christianity. This article is ordere first by branch, then denomination/church, and so on. --Checco (talk) 17:22, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

RFC

• Question 1. Should wikilinks be used in section headings in this article? (yes/no)
• Question 2. Should the sections of this article be ordered in "family" order (Protestantism second) or "denomination" order (Eastern Orthodox Church second)? Elizium23 (talk) 17:36, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
•  Comment: The first question is already answered in MOS:HEAD: "Section headings should...Not contain links". I have no thoughts or opinions on the second question. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:34, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
• No to Q1 Agree with above MOS:HEAD controls. Move the links to the prose in the first paragraph following the heading, rewording as necessary to achieve this. As to the second question I come down narrowly on the side of the chronological or denomination order as easier to follow, however if family order is preferred in the theological realm I'll defer to that usage. 2604:2000:8FC0:4:617F:E9A7:AF1C:4546 (talk) 05:44, 14 December 2019 (UTC)