Talk:Logos

"Fire of knowledge" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Fire of knowledge and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 24#Fire of knowledge until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 18:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Edits on meaning of logos

Recent edits have changed what, for the most part as far as I remember, was correct. I cannot find the previous version that I seem to remember, it was possibly over 2 years ago. I have edited the introduction to agree with the sources of the article because the Perseus article and the wikt link cited were no longer in agreement with the text. The primary meaning of Logos is that of Reason. The other meanings are secondary and some of them ("ground", "plea", "opinion", "expectation", "word") do not apply to the use of the word logos in classical antiquity, if at all. They are not in the Perseus source. If anyone knows of examples where the word Logos had those meanings, they can cite them. Skamnelis (talk) 18:06, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

I can help clarify the disagreement and maybe clear up where there may be misunderstandings here.

Summary

"Logos" is a complex term that has been used to refer to a variety of concepts, including "ground," "plea," "opinion," "expectation," and "word." Its meaning has been explored by philosophers and scholars throughout history, and there are many resources available that can shed light on its significance. We aren't going to agree but there are parameters of shared understanding that can be stated, if one is willing.

Definitions of Logos

• The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) is a comprehensive resource for English-language definitions and usage histories. According to the OED, "logos" can refer to: "a ground, a plea, a reason, a proportion, a ratio; an opinion, a saying, a word; the Word, or Divine Reason, supposed by some Greek philosophers to regulate the Universe."
• The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (SEP) is an online resource that provides detailed, peer-reviewed articles on a wide range of philosophical topics. The entry on "Aristotle's Metaphysics" includes a section on "The Meaning of 'Logos'" that explores the various senses in which Aristotle uses the term, including as "word," "reason," and "account."
• The Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (IEP) is another online resource that offers articles on philosophical concepts and thinkers. The entry on "Heraclitus" discusses the role of "logos" in the thought of this pre-Socratic philosopher, who saw it as a unifying principle that governs the universe.
• The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy is a reference work that provides concise definitions and explanations of key philosophical terms. Its entry on "logos" notes that it can mean "word," "discourse," or "reason," and that it is a central concept in the work of philosophers such as Heraclitus, Plato, and Aristotle.
• The Encyclopedia Britannica is a general knowledge encyclopedia that covers a wide range of topics. Its entry on "logos" provides a historical overview of the term's usage, from its roots in ancient Greek philosophy to its later adoption by Christian theologians.

Edunoramus (talk) 18:24, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

To advance this conversation a bit more if anyone else is interested in tackling substance over "agenda". The term "logos" is an "Essentially contested concept" that resides at the intersections of fact and metaphysics.

Logos encompasses multifaceted meanings, including reason, logic, discourse, and divine ordering principles. It involves both objective aspects, rooted in rationality and empirical evidence, and subjective elements, intertwined with metaphysical and philosophical considerations.

Daniel Kahneman's work on cognitive biases reveals the challenges of resolving the concept of "logos" as individuals' subjective biases and cognitive processes can influence their interpretations of facts, rationality, and logical reasoning. These biases can hinder objective consensus and contribute to the ongoing debate and contestation surrounding interpreting and understanding the multifaceted concept of "logos."

Edunoramus (talk) 15:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Exploring Diverse Perspectives: Authentic Definitions of Logos

Realistically, there are many ways in which we can approach this topic. One approach is to elucidate the significance of logos as a concept and its role in understanding the ordered nature of the universe. This focuses primarily on the Hellenic conception of logos in ancient philosophy. It highlights the idea of an immanent reason in the world and its connection to the cosmic process. The development of the concept is traced through different stages, including the theories of Heraclitus, the Stoics, and Philo. The discussion primarily revolves around understanding logos as a rational principle governing the world and its relation to physical and metaphysical elements.

Also, apart from its Hellenic philosophical context, the term "logos" has been interpreted and explained in various ways across different disciplines and traditions.

Here are a few alternative explanations:

• Theological Perspective: In Christian theology, "logos" is associated with the divine Word of God, as mentioned in the Gospel of John. It represents the divine creative principle and the embodiment of God's wisdom and communication with humanity.

• Semiotics and Linguistics: Logos can be understood as a symbol or sign that carries meaning. Semiotics refers to using language and signs to convey information and create understanding. In linguistics, it can refer to rhetoric as a persuasive argument.

• Existential and Phenomenological Philosophy: Some philosophical traditions emphasize logos' subjective and experiential aspects. For example, existentialists explore the role of logos in human existence and the search for meaning in life. Phenomenology investigates how our consciousness and perception shape our understanding of the world.

• Rhetoric and Persuasion: In classical rhetoric, logos is one of the three modes of persuasion (alongside ethos and pathos). It appeals to reason and logic, using evidence, facts, and arguments to support a position and convince an audience.

• Mathematical and Scientific Context: Logos can be understood as a logical principle or mathematical formula that provides a basis for reasoning and understanding. In scientific contexts, it can refer to the rational and systematic investigation of the natural world.

I advocate for defining Logos in the full spectrum of its complexity. I understand that this is potentially contentious for those with an aim grounded in metaphysics related to the Christian theological perspective. Let's work it out.

Edunoramus (talk) 17:18, 1 July 2023 (UTC)