Talk:Multiverse

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Another view

I have a bit of a problem with the idea of multiple universes that are, one way or another, related to each other, or at least (could) influence each other.

Consider a universe as a manifestation of a space-time continuum. So each universe in a multiverse has it's own notion of time and space. As soon as we think of "another" universe relating or reacting with "our" universe, we observe that other universe with out notion of space and time. However: our space and time do not apply to the other universe (neither apply the other universes time and space to our universe).

This means that from within our universe (or space-time continuum), we can not observe other universes, because if we could, the other universe is part of our notion of space and time, and thus, by definition, not another universe.

Other universes may exist, but cannot be observed. Neither can we say "where" or "when" a given universe exists or existed. Again: because the "where" and "when" only apply to our own universe.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.62.68.228 (talk) 11:55, 30 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Should Lee Smolin be included as a proponent of a multiverse theory?

In the article, there is reference to "Lee Smolin's fecund universes theory."

But his name does not appear in the list of proponents. I dunno how Dr. Smolin would represent his own view. Perhaps someone who knows him might ask. 96.237.136.210 (talk) 03:40, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Asking him would be original research. Anything included must be based on what is published in reliable sources. If he has not made his position clear in all his papers, books, talks and interviews then there is nothing more to say. Any list of proponents and skeptics is going to be problematical because there are multiple multiverse concepts and some people fall into both categories. I suspect that Smolin is one of them. Weburbia (talk) 08:17, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say that unless his views are represented in independent reliable sources, then whatever his views are, they don't belong here. Doug Weller talk 09:34, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Add specific reference

After the first sentence in the Explanation section, "The structure of the multiverse, the nature of each universe within it, and the relationships among these universes differ from one multiverse hypothesis to another." Add the specific reference that takes a macro view of universe creation process: Creating a Universe, a Conceptual Model, Journal of Philosophy and Cosmology, http://ispcjournal.org/journals/2016-17/PC_vol_17-86-105.pdf This should provide necessary perspective. Please respond if you do not think this adds value. Jim J Jim Johnson 15:27, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Another source

[1] Doug Weller talk 18:07, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of James Johnson reference.

The removal of the James R Johnson paper citation seems a little premature. ISPCJournals does not seem to be on Beall's List. The paper didn't look half bad and even contained a reference to another paper I hadn't known of before. Is it right that the citation was so quickly removed? It is not obviously pseudoscience. 96.237.136.210 (talk) 03:21, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

obvious REFSPAM and more importantly, a primary source. We build WP from secondary sources that describe what is going on in a given field, not papers presenting individual theories -- we have no way to know how much WEIGHT that should be given to them, and we should not try to judge. Has nothing to do with pseudoscience per se. Jytdog (talk) 03:37, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog, this is not a theory but a model based on fact. When discussing the multiverse, the laws of nature are assumed. By acknowledging and defining them, a complete picture is obtained. This this article, quoting 14 noted physicist, adds direct value . The comments above, by one user on Sept 10,confirm this. Since it was deleted after a day, how much more support would it receive? Please provide specific justification for deletion. Thanks Jim Johnson 15:05, 16 September 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimjohnson2222 (talk • contribs)

Four things:

Please clarify if you are the same person as the IP addresss above.

Jytdog, I just discovered this now and I can confirm that I am not James Johnson (but it appears that Jimjohnson2222 might be). 96.237.136.210 (talk) 06:02, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog, I do not know my IP address but all my comments have Jim Johnson or James R Johnson. Jim Johnson 18:38, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Please be sure to indent and your sign your posts on Talk pages. See Help:Talk_pages#Indentation.

Please review WP:SELFCITE. If this is your paper please say so.

The paper appears to be what we call a "primary" source, where the authors' research is first published (these are papers where knowledge that has been created, or a synthesis that has been developed, is first is made public). It does not appear to be what we call a "secondary source", which is a source that itself attempts to summarize what is already known and accepted in a given field. Would you please confirm that this is a primary source? Jytdog (talk) 20:19, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The reference cited is a Secondary Source as defined by,”Secondary sources involve generalization, analysis, synthesis, interpretation, or evaluation of the original information.” The article expands on a multiverse topic briefly discussed by physicists Greene and Tegmark. Yes, I am author and forgot to sign last update. Jim Johnson 15:07, 17 September 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimjohnson2222 (talk • contribs) 15:08, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The source says: "This article defines a conceptual model separating the laws of nature from the universe’s energy source and its expansion". It is the author's model, presented here, and is the primary source for that. Jytdog (talk) 20:02, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, the Model is not original research. Any physicist would acknowledge that it describes our current understanding. The issue is that most ignore talking about the” laws of nature” because, like the multiverse, validation of different laws is not possible. However, analysis speculating on different laws is no different than speculating on Multiverse. Both Brian Greene and Max Tegmark are quoted on their thoughts related to laws of nature. Jim Johnson 03:06, 18 September 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimjohnson2222 (talk • contribs)

If there are no other objections, I will add back reference in a few days. Jim Johnson 11:22, 27 September 2017 (UTC)