Talk:Rule of Rose

Blank Story Section

The story section is presently blank, probably because someone wanted to clean it up some. God knows the game is hard to parse.

I am going to add a small blurb as a placeholder so that the story section is not just floating there. -- [[User::vincenttoups|Vincent Toups]] 3:47, 16 Jan 2006 (ET)

PS can anyone tell me how to get my signature to appear like everyone elses? I just got an account and I would appreciate it greatly.

Hi Vincent, if you want to sign your posts then just add four tildes (~) after you've finished typing. I'd created a story and gameplay heading as they were missing from the article - it then consisted mainly of character sections and controversy/impact.

I was however stumped at how to start, I've not had access to my PS2 for weeks and I'm not a writer. However, your contributions managed to get my brain started and I've since written the gameplay section and incorporated your own text within it. The story section is going to be a real pain in the backside, as you've pointed out, I'm not sure how much material I'm going to be able to produce. Anyhow, welcome to Wikipedia, hope you enjoy yourself whilst you contribute. QuagmireDog 18:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

US Release false?

I thought I just read something stating that Sony of America is going to prevent the release in the US, but I can't find the article now... Zarggg 02:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060608-7018.html -- Ianiceboy 06:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

SCE will not be publishing the game due to the potential for underage erotic inference, Atlus, however, will be releasing the game in the US on September 12 of this year. --NEMT 04:43, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler Warnings needed

Isn't revealing that Wendy is the Princess in the Red Crayon Aristocracy section a bit of a spoiler? After all, unlike the other girls of the RCA, Wendy's title is never mentioned on the official site. There's reason for that, isn't there?

Have no Fear, I've fixed it. and you should sign your name. 74.117.157.185 22:21, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Do U like or dislike the edits I made?

This was my first time actually contributing to anything in Wiki, so I'm just worried that maybe the edits were unnessesary. Either way, pleaz tell me what U thought of them. If I messed smt up, soz.

• It's kinda hard to give feedback if you don't sign your comments. --Mika1h 15:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Characters Unimportant?

There used to be a short character section on this page that was seemingly removed because it was "unimportant." The section wasn't very long, it was informative, and it's not uncommon for a video game article to have a brief character section. I'm just curious about about the reasoning for the removal.

65.160.144.38 14:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)Lovely

I wondered about this issue too, but I thought that perhaps the reasoning behind it was to remove English information until the English version had come out, in case there were discrepancies between translation, but as that is not the case any longer I see no reason not to include a character section, along with anything else like gameplay ect. Amyeis 15:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

From confusing character list to encyclopedia article

I'm trying to brush the article up into a wikipedia entry, can you help?

The article's headings are now more or less as they should be.

The game itself has three 'realities' in effect, as well as interpretation of these events. Managing these is going to be an ongoing task and potential pitfall during the article's continued evolution.

Tips for contributors:

• Encyclopedia articles are designed for those with little or no knowledge of the subject and surrounding subjects. Everything has to be spelled-out and unambiguous.
• The story section should be a brief outline. Many facets of the game are ambiguous. If it's open to interpretation, don't put it in - without adequate sourcing this is original research and can't be used. If you're unfamiliar with referencing (like me) (I was but now I'm OK, though I know it's tough if you're unfamiliar with referencing), please bring any good links you find here to the talk page.
• The article was mainly composed of lengthy 'character' subheadings which also combined different aspects of the story. Many of these did not match my play-through of RoR. Where did information like 'Gregory was trained like a dog, Martha contacted the police about it several times' etc. etc. come from? If anyone can point out where these 'aftermath' details came from I'd be extremely grateful.

Things to do:

• Alter character descriptions so they match the kind of layout and data given in the character lists of well established game articles.
• Story needs expanding - bare bones might be good for a start? (It's going to be difficult, I know).

I'll keep adding to the list (and striking through completed items). Discussion about this would be appreciated, I'm a tweaker rather than a writer, but so many survival horror articles need to be fixed I'm having a go. QuagmireDog 04:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually I don't think we need too much detail on the characters and how they attack and so on. A rough plot outline would do. The article should bring together a brief description, followed by outside sources' discussion of the game. I mean, those who have not played the game know this stuff already, and for those who haven't, it's just a big list of spoilers they should avoid. Compare to the Featured Article-grade page on MGS3. Sockatume 14:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Food for thought. I've been unable to get online till literally a few minutes ago, but rest assured the comparison was eye-opening. When I've had the chance to absorb more details from VG FAs I'll make some changes. Thanks QuagmireDog 13:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Fansite link and external links

(temporary section) Here are the four external links that I'll use for citing the article, here temporarily to clear the bulging external links:

• Gamasutra interview with Shuji Ishikawa & Yuya Takayama
• Interview with Zach Meston from Atlus

(temporary section)

Fansite link - what's going on with this guys? Seems to be an awful lot of edit-warring in-out cut/rename etc.

There should be a fansite link, particularly if it's an established site (this one seems to be), so why is it being removed?

It should explain itself without promotional/vanity language - it has a name, that name should be used. It is a fansite and it is a forum, therefore labelling it as such is correct. Whether it's 'the biggest in existence' is irrelevant. It's the one used on one of the most traffic-intensive websites in the world, at the bottom of the subject it directly relates to. Nothing anyone can write will big it up more, in a few words or in several paragraphs - please leave it as a simple statement, it's a forum and a fansite.

Could everyone with an interest please state it? If there's a point then it should be made and discussed, if not it's just vandalism and will be dealt with accordingly.

I've removed the GameFAQs link, the fansite should cover game tips (as well as various other resources) and this is a general encyclopedia, not a gamer's site. If any gamer can find this entry then they can find a walkthrough elsewhere.

The four links I've listed here are not lost or thrown out, I will use each one to cite the article (the interviews can be a start of the development section). QuagmireDog 19:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that the link SHOULD be in the page. However, it should not have the "Biggest fansite in existance" or whatever thing. The first time I deleted that, I accidentally deleted the link too. Now, the thing is that the link should be put as "Rule of rose fansite and forum" (and its name, if it has one), but the author of the site should not promote it in a stupid way. However, he/she keeps doing that. We delete the "Biggest fansite in existance" part, and he/she adds it again. It's getting annoying.

Thanks.

Thanks for your input, interference of that nature doesn't help the fansite's cause and creates more work -.-. If a fan or even the webmaster of that site feels the need to beef up the wording they should bear in mind i) Wikipedia likes claims to be backed up and neutrality, ii) they have a solid gold link, whenever someone looks up RoR on this encyclopedia they are pointed to Rule of the Rose, you'd struggle to buy that kind of coverage and iii) if contributors here decide the link should stay, it will be despite any insistence that RotR is 'the biggest in existence', not because of. Just leave it to us to label it in the house style and accept it for the boon it is.QuagmireDog 21:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

"if contributors here decide the link should stay" . I personally in fact don't like it being here, but I don't certainly know if wikipedia allows it or not. I've seen fan pages being removed from articles, so if that's what it normally happens, I'd like it to happen here too (not to say that many times I click the link, geocities tells me that it exceeded its bandwidth, so it's not even a really IMPORTANT fansite imo).

Thanks for all your work in reverting the edits, I appreciate your help and interest here.

Noted, I've noticed the bandwidth restrictions and resulting message from the site too, often accompanied by a raised eyebrow. I don't feel strongly that the link must stay, more that it would cause no harm or irritation if the links remain tidy and the spam stops. As a fansite, it can give visitors different material than they would gain by looking at the cited sources. Once the spam does stop, the article becomes more stable etc., then if a lot of contributors were unhappy with the inclusion of the link then that'd change my own view of it. In the meantime I'd like to try and get more citations for the article and keep making gradual improvements - hopefully this will please most people, though any further discussion is most welcome. QuagmireDog 20:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

No, this is an outrage. Neither one of them have even created accounts. You are ignoring everything we have said, and instead making accusations and posting warnings.

So trying to smooth things over is an 'outrage' now? Neither of them have created an account.. have you? Who is 'we'? And how have I ignored everything you've said when you haven't communicated here before? What accusations, what warnings?

What I've done here is tried to clear the external links to a reasonable level and to leave a neutral impression of Rule of the Rose (the fansite), which is what this encyclopedia is built on, hoping that the link would be left alone and could then stay. The wording of the fansite's only effect was whether or not it fitted in with what is expected on Wikipedia, either a positive or negative thing. I editted it to be in-line with what is expected and positive, others have re-editted it back to be spammy and negative. I asked that well enough be left alone, so the fansite link could stay if others agreed, might as well have tried wringing blood from a stone. Then I sought help, either through that or not, moderators have become aware of what's happening here and are dealing with it. The present discussions are entirely self-inflicted by those who spammed the link instead of letting the link simply state its existence. So don't come crying to me now that the link is deleted, next time try discussing things with those trying to help instead of taking the water. QuagmireDog 21:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Fight for the Fansite!

According to some admins here, the Rule of the Rose fansite is not "important" enough to be allowed on the RoR page, even though it follows all the Wiki guidelines. It has even been incorrecly called a "Personal" site, even though it is not. It is one of only two RoR fansites out there, and the largest at that. The site has the most in-depth analysis of the characters, story, and many other things, not to mention the largest discussion conmmunity for the game. If you would like to demand the link be restored, please post here with your reasons!

How's it important? The keyword here is a "fansite." That doesn't mean it's an official site of the game, it means it's a site that you created. I don't see how a fansite is remotely relevant to the article, aside from the fact that the site is centered around the game. I highly doubt that it has "the most in-depth analysis" of the game. Shadow1 (talk) 18:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Quite a simple calculation here. Item 1 of "links normally to be avoided" states: Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article. Your fansite "does not provide a unique resource". Here's a suggestion: if you want to help improve this encyclopedia article, add content, not just a link. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 18:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Shadow, maybe you should look at it before making that deduction, because indeed it does. I'm not sure what you mean by "unique resource", but it has tons of info not on here. I would never add content to this page beyond a link, just to have someone delete it and try to block me.67.163.193.239 18:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Rule of the Rose is more helpful than the official RoR website, if you ask me. That site has character bios, very detailed summaries, and even a forum to discuss theories on. Wikipedia is how I found the link to the site, so I think they should keep the link up. 65.143.72.28 18:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

...and your sole contribution to our encyclopedia is to lobby for this link... --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:06, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

For your information, I have contributed to this site in the past, only to have what I wrote deleted or editted by someone. After awhile, people tend to get sick of this happening. But you are getting off-topic. To comment on what the person above said, it really is. Have you seen the official site? I mean seriously, the little booklet that came with the game had more info than that, and I'm not even joking. It's got like five tiny character bios and a little prologue, and that's about it for information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.163.193.239 (talk • contribs).

That comment wasn't directed at you - notice it was threaded underneath that other IP's comment, and points to his/her contributions. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Since when does a "fansite" automatically get the boot because of an encyclopedia's criteria? It is not JUST a site for fans to go to, but it's a place for critical discussion based on the game, sharing your thoughts, opinions, what have you to say on there, just like ANY other forum. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't fans go to forums and the main site to read up on things because it's of their interest? How is a fansite any different? I wanted a place to discuss the game, and IMDB, which has the biggest and best discussion board all over the net, doesn't even have Rule of Rose in it's database. I had to be given a link from a fellow IMDBer, who is the administrater of the biggest and best Rule of Rose fansite in question because I COULDN'T find it. I looked all over the net for some kind of forum or fansite, I even looked on here at one point and you had nothing that suited my needs. If I had never been given the link to the forum I would have NEVER found it on my own because it seems to be hidden or displaced across the net. If I had no place to talk about the game, as so many people have the same problem, WHO are we going to discuss it with? Our dogs? Not only is it a place for discussion, but there are people there that know the game as well as the back of their hand and can HELP people with an issue in the game if they ever have trouble. It helps talking with a real person instead of spending so much time trying to find the solution to your problem in a poorly typed up walkthrough.24.140.44.139 19:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Also this IP's one and only edit. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

You know, you have got a lot of nerve. What, a person cannot come here and voice their opinion without having made a million edits? It's really rude of you to single out these people. No one made them come here. They clearly care about the fansite and are here to argue their point to bring it back. I am really insulted by the little warning you added just because you can't take that people are taking my side and think the link should be allowed. You going to attack every single person who posts here in support of the link staying and completely ignore all the good points they bring up?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.163.193.239 (talk • contribs).

Use of such a banner is standard procedure when there is evidence of single purpose accounts. Please stay cool, ok? --ZimZalaBim (talk) 19:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

And now you are deleting my posts? I'm pretty sure that is against something. That does it, I am reporting you for harassment, and I hope those others do as well, because this is ridiculous.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.163.193.239 (talk • contribs).

Please calm down. I haven't deleted anything (to my knowledge). What are you talking about? --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

My post before that previous one was deleted, and I do not appreciate it. We came here to discuss the fansite and why it's link should not be deleted, but you just brush us aside and start deleting posts, labelling people, and claiming they were ordered to come here and told what to say.

First, please learn how to sign your comments with 4 tildes. Second, look at the page history - no one has deleted any comments. Maybe you're not seeing the one you put in the above section? Honestly, you need to take a break and calm down, perhaps disengage for a bit. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I will not calm down. The way you are treating me and them is ridiculous! We were trying to discuss the fansite seriously, when all of a sudden, you start ignoring what all the people who take my side say and start saying stuff about accounts they did not even create. Do you have any idea how rude this is? You are treating them as if they are nothing because they have not editted before.67.163.193.239 20:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Please calm down. We are not treating you badly or as if you're not important. Everyone on Wikipedia contributes with equal worth and weight. However, the evidence suggests that you may have asked others to come argue against the deletion, not to mention the title of this section. Let's cut out the conspiracy theories and focus on discussing the link in a calm and unbiased manner, instead of turning this article and its talkpage into a battleground. Shadow1 (talk) 20:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

You don't call this being treated badly? And clearly Zim does not agree, since he's been ignoring our calm discussion points and simply pointing fingers. From what both of those people are saying, it is clear they have been to the fansite. Where they came from has nothing to do with what they are saying here-their opinions are their own.

Oh, are they? It would not be the first time you ask people to put in a wikipedia article something you want. Like the "Help Our Forum" topic you made yesterday. In any case, I'm not giving my opinion about the fansite itself. I wouldn't like it to be here, but I simply don't care much. If it's decided that it should be here, then I don't have a problem with it.

Um, how about getting back on topic? 65.143.72.28 20:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary Section Break #1

Ok, I'm going to attempt to get this discussion back on track. 65.143.72.68, could you please state your reasons for wanting to include the link in a calm and collected manner? Shadow1 (talk) 20:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

It is one of only two RoR fansites out there, and the largest at that. The site has the most in-depth analysis of the characters, story, and many other things, not to mention the largest discussion conmmunity for the game.67.163.193.239 20:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

As noted previously, you have a conflict of interest here. Note the external link policy states that "You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked". (That's why, presumably, Shadow1 directed his/her query at a different IP than you). --ZimZalaBim (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

So, If ask a completely random friend who has nothing to do with the site to post the link, it would be fine? I doubt that's true, since someone already did that, and it STILL got deleted.67.163.193.239 21:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

How can a Wikipedia reader be so sure that the information contained in your website is factual and can be trusted? Also, how can you be so sure that it's the largest and most in-depth? Shadow1 (talk) 20:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Likewise, how can anyone be sure the info on Wikipedia is entirely accurate? I've seen tons of articles with no citation, and anyone can edit anything on a whim. And how can you be so sure the information on my site is NOT accurate? Anyone who has played the game will know that it is.67.163.193.239 21:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Like I said before: Rule of the Rose is more helpful than the official RoR website, if you ask me. That site has character bios, very detailed summaries, and even a forum to discuss theories on. Wikipedia is how I found the link to the site, so I think they should keep the link up.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.143.72.28 (talk • contribs).

Of course, but note the "if you ask me." Imagine, for a moment, that you're a Wikipedia reader. You follow the link to the site, and try to find some guarantee that the information is factual, accurate, and unbiased. Does your site have any authority over the subject? Shadow1 (talk) 20:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyone who has played the game will know it is factual. The only things that are opinionated are the various theories people have submitted, which have not even been posted there yet.67.163.193.239 21:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Canvassing

Proof of off-wiki canvassing at the forums in order to garner support for 67.163.193.239's position: forum link (you'll need to register), and a screenshot. This is unacceptable. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 01:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice try to frame me there. One, that link does not lead anywhere but the login page, and two, that screen shot's been editted in photoshop. Anyone who has even been to my forum could tell you that. That post is completely fabricated.

And even if it weren't, there is nothing wrong with pointing people to wikipedia to defend a link to a fansite they all love. Either way, the screenshot is clearly a fake.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.163.193.239 (talk • contribs).

Unbelievable. I swear as an administrator that the screenshot was in no way altered, and anyone can go ahead and create an account and check that link. And I never said it was you - just that some off-wiki canvassing has occurred to support your position. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 01:20, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm a member there and have been for a long time. I've never seen that post before, and upon checking, I do not see it now. There is no way that screenshot can be authentic, as it looks NOTHING like the type used on the forum by the admin. And for someone who complains about people spamming, you sure seem more than ready to go sending spammers to Jennifer's forum.

I am not surprised that the announcement has now been deleted (which is why I took the screenshot). And now, also not surprisingly, I have been blocked from the forum screenshot. This is ridiculous. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 01:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You were blocked for attempted spamming?>_> Gotta love the irony, though. The announcement was not deleted, for it never existed. If it had, I would have seen it, as I'm ALWAYS on the forum. And again, that screenshot looks nothing like the posts Jennifer makes.

3 Things

1- The person in the link, IS in fact the one talking here (the one with a 67.163.193.239 IP), I know because I'm a member there.

2- I don't know exactly if this person (67.163.193.239) thinks people here are stupid or what, but did you just post as another person? (I'm talking about the last post). You say "as it looks NOTHING like the type used on the forum by the admin", but it was you (the admin) who said that (look at the history)

3- I saw that thread, you just have to be registered to see it. Also, you claimed that people post their own opinion, but that doesn't look like the case:

"Where they came from has nothing to do with what they are saying here-their opinions are their own." (you said this here)

"And leave a message stating why you think the link should be kept" (Rule of rose forum)

"Please edit in the following: (link)" Clock Tower forum

You're not asking people to go to the wikipedia page and post what they think, you're asking people to post what you want them to post. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.64.66.86 (talk) 01:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

I'm not the admin, and that fake post in the screenshot does not even say that. No one can force people to do anything. And besides, you're a troll who attacks the forums-your word means nothing.