Talk:Swastika

YOU CAN NOT DESCRIBE THE SWATSIKA BY CLOCKWISE MOTION BECAUSE ONE CAN NOT UNIVERSALLY TELL WHICH WAY THE LEGS OF THE SWATSIKA ARE MOVING AS IT IS NOT AN ANIMATION

that being said I think the Nazi Germany swatsika's legs point outwards and to the right so I think it would be going in a clockwise motion which is the opposite of what is said in this article.

108.17.109.131 (talk) 22:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

The Swatstika's "srms" do go towards the right, or Clockwise. Indigodreamz (talk) 08:54, 3 March 2012 (UTC)indigodreamzIndigodreamz (talk) 08:54, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Hipster user in SE Asia

Sadly, I have frequently seen the swastika emblazoned on t-shirts (and other items) worn by young guys in south east asia, normally the national socialist flag of black upon a solid white circle, on a red flag. As a European, it is somewhat sickening, especially given that the country I live in was brutally occupied by another Axis power.Wavy (talk) 17:27, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

There's nothing sickening about its use in south east Asia, since it's been used there for thousands of years. Have you read the article? Paul B (talk) 17:58, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Let me tell you something: the swastika should have nothing to do with Europeans. It's only because of Hitler's smartass and sickening decision to use it as a symbol for Nazism and their ideologies, that it's become so stigmatized in the West when it shouldn't be. Don't bring up this kind of topic cause it has nothing to do with the swastika and 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of auspiciousness. Btw I'm guessing Hitler decided to use it because it was from the "Aryan" civilization, and it represents eternity. - M0rphzone (talk) 21:06, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, because of the horrifying past in Europe, people have been educated about Hitler and Nazism and the swastika. But, if you don't use that sort of association and thinking, then you won't think of the swastika symbol in this way. But if you want to feel disgusted, then direct that feeling towards Hitler and his sick use of this ancient, religious symbol for his own ideologies. Don't force others to feel bad or disgusted just because you and your education made you think of it this way. - M0rphzone (talk) 21:14, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

It doesn't sound like that's what he's describing, though, but a design actually reminiscent of a Nazi flag, which is a different matter, isn't it? Twin Bird (talk) 20:05, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

He never clarified what he described. What he said might mean that the swastika was used when it's normally used on the Nazi socialist flag (with block upon a solid white circle, on a red flag). A possible reason is because it's might be a traditional symbol in that region, and since westerners used it, they want to use it too, or they don't know about Hitler and Nazi's use of it. The other meaning is they are using the Nazi flag (to represent socialism), which is probably very likely. - M0rphzone (talk) 17:58, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Image problem

There is a problem with images on this page. Even though the Finnish Lotta Svärd and Tursaansydän images are coded into the Finland section, they are displayed in the Nazi section - a grave error. Can someone fix this, please - I couldn't.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Janke (talk • contribs) 11:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

The best thing might be to remove one or two: there are five images which seems too many for a such a short section. I have no idea though which are the most important or significant.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 12:18, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

The article has waaay too many images. It could do with a brutal prune. Span (talk) 09:37, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Already done twice. - M0rphzone (talk) 04:38, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Revival

I'm quoting from an archived talk page

I have now obtained an image of the Samarra bowl. Now, it turns out that the swastika in its center is "partially restored", i.e. it may as well have been a product of the imagination of the restaurators in the Berlin Staatliches Museum than in that of the Chalcolithic artist. A 1981 article in fact complains about this, and the lack of proper documentation explaining that it is a restoration.

Stanley A. Freed, Research Pitfalls as a Result of the Restoration of Museum Specimens, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, Volume 376, The Research Potential of Anthropological Museum Collections pages 229–245, December 1981

I think it is no coincidence that the excavator (Ernst Herzfeld) "neglected" to indicate this fact in the sensational description of a Neolithic swastika discovered in the 1910s and described in 1930, i.e. at the very height of the swastika fad of the early 20th century. --dab (𒁳) 08:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

No one seems to have taken note of this fact. It would be wise to delete the references to the Samarra Bowl from this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.19.192.251 (talk) 15:17, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

German nationalist gymnastic clubs

To an uninformed reader it appears in this article as if there where not links between nationalism and swastika previous to 1920, which is wrong. Can someone with better wrinting skills than myself please correct it? http://keindiakonieklinikum.blogger.de/topics/ETV+2/#etv04 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.67.239.74 (talk) 00:22, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

first appearance of swastika symbol

there is an error in an article stating that first appearance of swastika shaped symbol dates back to bronze age Indian civilization(3000 BC), actually it dates way back to Vince civilization in present day Serbia (5000-6000 years BC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Milosvujovic1982 (talk • contribs) 06:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

error detected

I know nothing about this topic. But I know that when the article says "right facing... clockwise" in the lede and "counterclockwise" in the first caption, both describing images with swastikas facing the same direction, there is an error. 216.231.0.230 (talk) 05:38, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, this whole "clockwise/counterclockwise" stuff needs to be removed. The use of these terms in the lede outright contradicts the later section on directionality which states that either orientation could be described as "clockwise" or "counterclockwise". Someone has made utter nonsense of the text by adding "clockwise motion", so we have contradictory passages such as this: "Left-facing" and "right-facing" are used mostly consistently referring to the upper arm of an upright swastika facing either to the viewer's left (卍) in clockwise motion or right (卐) in counterclockwise motion. The other two descriptions are ambiguous as it is unclear whether they refer to the arms as leading or being dragged or whether their bending is viewed outward or inward. However, "clockwise" usually refers to the "right-facing" swastika. Paul B (talk) 10:47, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

First attested Swastika dates to 6300 BC from Iraq

Thank you for the article however there is an error; first attested Swastika dates to 6300 BC from Samarra in central Iraq

http://www.newsnfo.co.uk/pages/swastika%20large%20plate%20book%20pic.htm

Book picture of plate with painted bird heads fishing around a central swastika, ceramic, Samarra, 6,300-6,000 BCE, d: 27.7 cm Notice around the swastika the bird heads catching fish on the inside are also lizards and on the outer side ( crocodiles represented the military in the ancient past ) plate picture From the Hassuna/Samarra Period, 6500 BCE - 5500 BCE .Found in provenance unknown Ceramic production appeared in the ancient Near East towards the end of the 8th millenium BCE, and towards the 6th millenium BCE painted ceramics were common. In southern Mesopotamia the Samarra culture, and in northern Mesopotamia the Hassuna and Samarra cultures, produced finely decorated ceramics in the seventh and early 6th centuries BCE, showing the distribution of Halaf and early Ubaid cultures. Stylized animals such as the above birds and fish, and swirling patterns in chocolate-brown are typical of the Samarran style. Caubet, Annie and Patrick Pouyssegur. Source." The Origins of Civililization: The Ancient Near East. Paris: Terrail, 1998, pg 34.

Thanks

Humanbyrace (talk) 18:46, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

This has already been discussed. See Talk:Swastika/Archive_4#Samarra_bowl. You should know. You were the one who raised it back then in 2010. Paul B (talk) 19:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

There does not exist any source or evidence or document that state that the swastika in Samarra's bowl was "fabricated", besides there is more than one "Iraqi" Samarran pot with the "swastika" symbol in it, for example the pot below: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/418195358_47101edd2d.jpg

Also the old Arabic alphabet contained has the "t" letter look like swastika (and this Semitic "t" that is the acronyme of "taw" that means symbol in Arabianic/Semitic languages did gave us the Greek "tau" letter and throughout Greek the Latin "t" letter), please look below http://i49.tinypic.com/15nksg1.jpg

Humanbyrace (talk) 03:13, 15 May 2012 (UTC)