User talk:Alastair Haines

Legal threats

I'm sorry, Mr. Haines, but given that we have received further legal threats from a person making a credible claim to be your publisher and to be acting in your interest (viz. OTRS ticket #2009040310049955), and that those threats simply reiterate your previous claims of "defamation", this account is blocked again. You may want to clarify things with him and assure him that you have stated clearly that you have no intention of legal recourse against Wikipedia or the Foundation, so that he can follow suit and withdraw the threats as well.

If that person is acting against your interest, please contact the OTRS team or the Arbitration Committee by email (the addresses are provided in the pages pointed to by the links above), and we will attempt to clarify matters.

In the meantime, per our policy against legal threats, this account is to remain blocked indefinitely. No further discussion of this matter is to take place on-wiki; and your account has had all editing privileges blocked (including editing this talk page).

— Coren ^(talk) 01:30, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted on the noticeboard thread too Coren, but I just thought I'd highlight it here too... are you saying that there is a specific legal action being threatened or pursued which leads to this regrettable course of action? I rather had the impression at various points that Alistair was being asked to disavow the concept of legal action - which doesn't seem to me to be supported in policy at all. As you may further be aware, the application of the 'no legal threat' policy is far from consistent across the wiki, making it all the more important to be very clear what interpretation you are making at the mo. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 13:10, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alastair this is situation very regrettable. If you want a specific series of diffs examined please JUST tell either OTRS or us what they are and we'll look into it--Cailil ^talk 21:25, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's worth pointing out here, that per discussion here there is considerable doubt as to the veracity, origin, and content of this ticket. A bungle may have occurred. Privatemusings (talk) 22:56, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No PM there's not - just ask Alastair--Cailil ^talk 23:01, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I confirm what Cailil writes. Mathsci (talk) 23:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alastair gave me a heads up too. It looks like it's not a fake legal threat, but a genuine non-threat. From what I can gather from Alastair, the note seemed to be asking for the personal attacks on this page to be deleted -- which Coren actually did when he wiped the page! -- thus ending the non-threat by accident. I wish it weren't a holiday. I won't be around for 48 hours, but I can't wait to see what's happening when I come back. Despite Coren's best efforts to do otherwise, he may have actually complied with the non-threat. If he wants to continue to thwart the non-threat, he may have to restore the page just to show the letter writer who's boss. Candle lighting for the last days of Pesach approaches... have a good two days everyone. SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 23:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

see below for my little write up of the status quo.. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 00:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline Problems

It's my understanding that Alastair repudiated all legal intentions after the email occurred.

It's also my understanding that the email contains no legal threats at all.

Discussions on my own talk page made it clear that Coren and Daniel could provide no specific threatened action, and that a separate Admin reviewer saw no legal threat in the email.

This isn't a new legal threat from Alastair, then, because:

It's not new.
It's not a legal threat.
It's not from Alastair.

Even if this were a specific legal threat and were from Alastair himself -- he has already repudiated it for the previous unblock.

I recommend that we follow the actual timeline presented, place the email before Alastair's repudiation, and treat it as already repudiated.

It only seemed like a new threat to Coren because he found out about it afterward. No fault to Coren for a simple mistake -- but we do need this cleared up. We've all worked too hard and too long to spoil it now.

Thanks. SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 15:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While it's very nice of you to defend Haines and make all these assumptions, it would be much more impressive if the user himself would step forward and say something about it here. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 15:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He can't -- he's been blocked from posting on his own talkpage. Also, these weren't assumptions. This was the information presented on my own talk page over the past few days. Thanks. SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 16:03, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Then request first that he be unblocked from his talk page so he can speak for himself. Then see what he has to say about the situation. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 16:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Coren? Can we at least ungag him from his own talk page so we can hear from the horse's mouth? Thanks. SkyWriter (Tim) (talk) 16:22, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter - April 2009

Third opinions

Hi Alistair. I hope you are well. Sorry to bother you, but I noticed someone suggested there was something out of sorts with my previous post where I noted your ability to help resolve disputes posted at the request for third opinion noticeboard. I apologize if there was something about my phrasing that was off. I had followed the current issues you're involved with from afar and was hoping it was resolved, and I was genuinely happy to see you back. I appreciate the collegiality you've shown other Wikipedians, even those you disagree with on content issues, and I was being entirely forthright in noting my admiration for you work in helping to resolve other people's disputes. My efforts to help out at Third Opinion have been less successful so far, but maybe I'll have to try again. :) I'm sorry about the difficulties involved in your present situation here and I hope they can be satisfactorily sorted out soon. Take care and I hope you are enjoying yourself and your break from editing here. It can certainly be stressful at times. If and when you return, I look forward to having occasion to collaborate with you again in the future. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

status quo of ban

(or at least my understanding of it) I've just had quite a chat with various folk on IRC about this situation, and I think there are aspects to the status quo which aren't really communicated clearly above - here's my understanding of where we're at;

It would seem that Alistair's publisher has indeed sent an email to OTRS (ticket #2009040310049955)
Opinion amongst OTRS agents is divided as to whether or not this email constitutes a legal threat
The consensus in the OTRS channel seemed to be that this must now be decided by arbcom

I don't know if anyone has brought this to arbcom's attention, so I'll flick them an email now, and we'll see where it goes.... Privatemusings (talk) 00:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

for the record - mail sent to arbcom, we'll see how it goes... Privatemusings (talk) 01:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, Alistair Haines has also since contacted ArbCom. — Coren ^(talk) 02:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

coolio :-) - I've got a bit more info. now - and clearly this is a rather complicated situation, but with some important unresolved issues that are really not on, especially given that the email in question is apparently > 10 days old. I'd really appreciate it if you could lay out your ideas for the best next steps, Coren (these are probably ongoing as we speak) - something like 'sent for review to arbcom-l - expect resolution by April 20th' or somesuch. That would certainly be a step forward, I reckon. cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 02:53, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've copied this over to the requests for arbitration page too - fyi... Privatemusings (talk) 04:08, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For the record PM, Alastair is not banned. He's just blocked - there's a big difference--Cailil ^talk 08:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If Haines wants to edit so desparately, then he should go to his publisher and tell him to retract that complaint. If he fails to do so, then the legal threat, and the consequent block, remain intact, yes? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots 09:23, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]