User talk:Asarlaí

I usually continue a discussion from where it started; so if you leave a message, remember to return here for the reply.
Thanks. ~Asarlaí

Best wishes

Happy New Year and thanks for all your help on Glenanne gang. It's been assessed as B Class!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:59, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Same to you :-) ~Asarlaí 20:07, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Question regarding the UVF

Asarlai, I asked this question over at Ref Desk Humanities, but so far, I haven't received any answers. Would you happen to know which UVF brigade commanded Omagh and the surrounding area in the 1970s? Thanks. I presume it was the Mid-Ulster brigade, but I haven't seen anything which states this as fact. Thank you.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:34, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I think Omagh would be to far west to be covered by the Mid-Ulster UVF. Mabuska ^(talk) 17:00, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree Omagh is a bit far away from the Lurgan/Portadown area where the Mid-Ulster brigade were based. I recall having read in old back issues of the Belfast Newsletter there was a UVF group operating in the Tyrone/Fermanagh area and they'd been involved in a series of killings and attacks in and around the Omagh area in the mid-1970s. I am curious as to whether or not the local UVF commander may have been one of the Somerville brothers involved in the Miami Showband killings.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:11, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Personally i don't know. Mabuska ^(talk) 17:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

If I still resided in Dublin I'd take the bus into town and head over to the National Library. The old copies of the Belfast Newsletter would likely resolve the issue.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:00, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Does Peter Taylor's Loyalists cover them? Mabuska ^(talk) 18:17, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

No, nor does he make any mention of Billy Hanna, Robin Jackson, and the Glenanne gang. The book was written before John Weir made his affadavit. He does discuss the Mid-Ulster brigade but without naming the leaders.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 18:20, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

We all know Billy Wright was its leader for years until he broke them off to form the LVF - its well documented. Mabuska ^(talk) 22:35, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I haven't been able to find anything either, but I'll let you know if I do. ~Asarlaí 03:32, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Asarlai. Yes, Billy Wright took over Robin Jackson's command in the early 1990s when Jackson became stricken with cancer.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:55, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Miami Showband killings

Hi Asarlai. I have added more info and details to the Miami Showband killings article. What do you think?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:35, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

You're doing a great job, don't worry so much! :-P ~Asarlaí 12:03, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:12, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Could you please take a look at the new section and subsections I 've added to the article. It needed a background section with a brief history of both the band and the political situation in the North at the time the killings occurred.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:30, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done ~Asarlaí 16:37, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

It looks fantastic.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:57, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

At least 90% of that fantasticness is thanks to you. ~Asarlaí 17:08, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

You are being too modest, Asarlai.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:30, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Asarlai, I just nominated Miami Showband killings for GA status. What do you think?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 15:38, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Good choice. I think it'll pass easily. ~Asarlaí 18:07, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope it does. You and I have done a great deal of work in improving it. Just take a look at it back in 2008! Just one long paragraph and one image.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:56, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The Miami Showband killings article is now GA. Thank you for all your help on the article!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:42, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Pronounciations

I'm guessing you've started adding pronounciations after i started adding it to a few articles. One problem though - what is your source for them? Mine are sourced, whereas i don't see any sources for yours so are they original research or actually sourced? If they aren't then you should revert them, especially as some places have two or more pronounciations, i.e. Clougher may be "Claw-hir" but also "Cloc-er". Mabuska ^(talk) 21:38, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Also pronounciations should be along phonetic lines such as IPA. For example Carnlough should be along the lines of "karn'lɔx" not carn-loc and the Clough in Cloughfin, Clougher, and Cloughmills should be "klɔx". Mabuska ^(talk) 21:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't have a great knowledge of IPA so I added non-IPA pronunciations in the hope that someone would convert them later. Most of the pronunciations are obvious (for example we all know that lough in Irish placenames is pronounced loc) and I've also heard them being spoken. I have no idea where we would find reliable sources though. ~Asarlaí 22:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Also, is it MOS to use only IPA pronunciations? Most people don't have a clue how to read it :-/ ~Asarlaí 22:05, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Wierdly enough some of the IPA is easy enough to pronounce, but luckily when you use the {{pron-en|'klɔx}} tag, and similar ones, it provides a link to IPA where you can match the symbol to the pronounciation. Its the way pronounciations are done on Wiki despite the oddity of some symbols.

The best source is the volumes of the Places-Names of Northern Ireland created by Queens University Belfast. For every townland, town, civil parish and barony they give the pronounciation(s) used locally. Only problem is one symbol it uses isn't in the IPA, however after requesting over at the IPA board what IPA symbol matches it, i've got it sorted. It helps produce the "au" sound as you start to pronounce Upperlands etc.

However at the moment, despite the best intentions, yours are original research meaning they should be removed. Ignoring the "clock-er" type of pronounciation for Clougher, "claw-hir", can be argued as actually being "claw-her", and so without sources means they could be dubious.

The source i'm using (the one above) also delves into and lists the actual possible origin of a townlands name and so would be a far better source for the derives in NI settlement introductions than Logaimn, which almost only provides modern retro-translations or variations - which are perfect for the infobox which is for just that. Mabuska ^(talk) 23:11, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Can any of Places-Names of Northern Ireland be read online? If not, could you convert my pronunciations into IPA? I've added them to most Northern Ireland settlements that have ough in their spellings. ~Asarlaí 23:20, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately i only have volume 5, The Moyola Valley, which deals with most of Loughinsholin. If i tried to convert any that aren't in the book i have then i'm guilty of synthesis and original research. Heres the full list of volumes that they've produced. Despite the fact some of the books earlier editions came out in 1996, not all of NI seems to have been covered. Mabuska ^(talk) 23:36, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

You see I'm worried that foreign readers are wrongly pronouncing very common or basic placename elements like lough and clough. Since those kinds of pronunciations are common knowledge in Ireland, would it be wrong for us to add IPA pronunciations to those kinds of spellings without a source? I'm thinking of WP:BLUE here. ~Asarlaí 23:55, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Pronounciations i don't think can fall under WP:BLUE due to the fact there are different ways to pronounce some places, and the fact the words we choose may not actually best represent them. You might have one way of pronouncing somewhere than i do - example being Clogher. However it would be daft of us to add in partial pronounciations, say just for the "Clough" bit but not the "er" or Clough but not mills. It would be possible to synthesis for some places, but the problem with Claw/Clock-her/hir/er is which do we choose without a source? Mabuska ^(talk) 11:11, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

This discussion reminds me that when I lived in Dublin I worked with a woman named Grainne. Well, some people pronounced it as Grawnya whereas others as Groanya. I always called her Grawnya (which is how she herself pronounced it!). Which is actually correct?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:23, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd say that both are correct. Different areas/regions will have different pronounciations of the same name and they will more than likely use the version that they know or where brought up with. Mabuska ^(talk) 11:56, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

She was a Dubliner, anyway. Oh, how are these names normally pronounced: Padraig and Cait?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:00, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I usually hear Padraig being pronounced "Pad-raag" and i'd assume Cait would be something like "Kate". Mabuska ^(talk) 22:49, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the pronunciation of Cait, but I usually hear Padraig being pronounced "Pad-rig". ~Asarlaí 22:54, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I've heard both for Padraig. Mabuska ^(talk) 23:21, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I knew a Padraig and he was called Porrig', whereas people pronounced Cait as Codge. There was a girl Siona from Clifden and people usually called her Sh-i-on-a, however her sister used Sheena.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:24, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

British English template

Hi Asarlai, would you know how to add a British English template to an article's talk page? Thanks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:18, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Here are the templates for British English and for Hiberno-English. ~Asarlaí 22:59, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I have just added it to the Miami Showband talk page, seeing as the article uses British English.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 07:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

If you haven't already

Please consider adding your thoughts to this AfD, per your status here. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 14:58, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Ireland settlement infoboxes

I'm attempting to make article consistent with better quality maps and adding infoboxes do those which don't have them. We use infobox settlement for main Irish cities too. If you persist in reverting me when I am also going to really cleanup these article in content too and make standard then I resign from doing the job now and 90% of the articles desperately in need of cleanup will not be edited by me and improved. I've found missing coordinates for many articles, cleaned up some sourcing and poor sentences, despammed external links but I do not have the time to put effort into this if you revert me. Every infobox should look lovely and clean like Dublin with better quality svg pin maps,,,♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Infobox Settlement is only used for the cities. Infobox Irish Place is (or should be) used for all other settlements in the Republic of Ireland. Have a look through List of towns and villages in the Republic of Ireland. Someone has wrongly added Infobox Settlement to most of the County Cork articles and I'll be bringing it up on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland. ~Asarlaí 23:49, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Not wrongly. I've commented at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:54, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Baronies

In regards to your additions to the NI baronies on those that border baronies in the Republic; whilst they are still in the article i have reworded them all to clarify that they aren't also in Northern Ireland as someone might assume as the articles all open with County Foo, Northern Ireland. Secondly i've also relocated them from the sourced sentences. Could you please resist the urge of adding information into sourced statements especially when the source doesn't back it up? The PRONI source only shows and covers NI baronies not those in the Republic, for those baronies in the Republic you should find and add a suitable source rather than gazumping another source to give it verifiability. Its also deceptive and tarnishes the work i put into sourcing all the information in the articles. Mabuska ^(talk) 13:54, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm impressed

The 1969 Northern Ireland Riots article is fantastic-a definite B class or higher! The prose is superb: Fluid, readable, plenty of pertinemt details. It does need an image. Unfortunately my PC was reformatted so my scanner will have to be downloaded again. When my daughter returns home from school I'll get her to do it. I have found a wonderful image which shows a masked man hurling a petrol bomb from a Dery rooftop during the Battle of the Bogside. I'll upload it to the article as soon as I can. You're doing wonderful work here, Asarlai and you are a real asset to the encyclopedia.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Wonderful picture? Don't get me started lol. Before giving it a rating does the article treat the subject evenly from both sides? Mabuska ^(talk) 11:09, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't being political. I meant wonderful as it would greatly enhance the article. As for balance, I have just added a loyalist perspective regarding the arrival of the British Army.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:35, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I have found an even better picture which has since been added to the article. What do you think? Oh, and I found an image of James Mitchell, which I 've uploaded to the Glenanne gang article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:47, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. I'm mighty impressed at the work you've done too (which is a lot more than me).

The picture is great. I'll be uploading another soon. What we really need now is an old map of west Belfast.

...It's probably best to continue this on the article's own talkpage though :-P ~Asarlaí 23:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Spurious edit summary

I noticed this edit summary at Moneyneany: (cleaned-up; added pictures; added reference for Irish name). I don't know how rewording something is exactly cleaning it up, however i feel more perturbed by the fact you claimed to have added the reference for the Irish name which you clearly did not in that edit or in that article at all, especially as i did. I would suggest against claiming other peoples additions as your own as its bad faith and using edit summaries that are more factual. Mabuska ^(talk) 23:08, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

My summary does not in any way claim that "these references were added by me and nobody else". There was only one reference for the Irish name; I added two more. There was no picture; I added one. There was unneeded info, wordiness and unneeded links; I cleaned that up. ~Asarlaí 23:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Indeed you did add two more sources. I hate the way Wikipedia sometimes fails to highlight every change made to an article as you can see from the edit page of yours i provided above. My apologies, however why are two more sources even needed? Is Queens not a reliable, verifiable source? Mabuska ^(talk) 11:20, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

It is a reliable source. I just like to add Placenames NI and/or Logainm links so people can read the source online. ~Asarlaí 16:19, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Tullyhogue Fort

Why should there be a wikilink to the Ui Neill in the introduction? The sources testify that it was the inauguration site of the O'Neill clan not the entire extended "family" of the main cenéls that where spread across a good chunk of Ireland which that link takes the reader to. The wikilink is too vague and unspecific to be relevant to the article. O'Neill_dynasty#O.27Neills_of_Tyrone is a far more suitable and relevant wikilink to use. Mabuska ^(talk) 01:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

That's fair enough. O'Neill dynasty is probably a better link to use. ~Asarlaí 01:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Reavey and O'Dowd killings

Hello Asarlai, I've opened a discussion on this article's talk page regarding Anthony Reavey. Your input is needed. Thanks.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Bombay street

There's a documentary on the 1969 riots and the burning of bombay street on on BBC tonight at 10.30, might be of interest and a source for the article.

Rgds Jdorney (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. It was a good show and I think we could use it to back-up some things. It should be on BBC iPlayer. ~Asarlaí 18:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

UFF/UDA edits

Do you have consensus for these edits? --John (talk) 17:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Which edits are you referring to? ~Asarlaí 17:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

The many edits you have been making that switch UFF for UDA. --John (talk) 18:10, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't think I need a consensus for that. I should note that I haven't changed every mention of UFF to UDA; I've only done so where it was needed. It's a well-established fact that UFF is a covername used by the UDA when it wished to claim responsibility for attacks or other actions. This is explained further (with sources to support it) at Ulster Defence Association. ~Asarlaí 18:15, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I see this used as a source, which is pretty good as sources go. On the other hand, the article says "some" regard this as a cover name for the UDA, which sounds like there may be other opinions on the matter. Meantime, why not raise this centrally and see if you can get a consensus for it. If it's as straightforward as you suggest, that shouldn't be a problem. --John (talk) 18:40, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll go over my changes again and deal with them case-by-case. ~Asarlaí 00:39, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Getting a broader consensus in a central location would be better. Mabuska ^(talk) 12:21, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Asarlai, why not move this discussion over to Talk:Ulster Defence Association?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:24, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I hope this doesn't sound rude, but I suggest you look through the edits I've made today (10th March) one-by-one. I haven't simply changed every mention of UFF to UDA, I've dealt with it case-by-case. In some cases I've re-added UFF. Where changes have been made, I've backed them with reliable sources. ~Asarlaí 12:33, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

No, you are not being rude at all. The UFF/UDA labels are indeed very tricky, especially when the name was not officially used until 1973, yet the UDA death squads had begun killing people in 1972. These squads became known as the UFF, but as you say that was just a covername used by the UDA to avoid being proscribed by the government. I ran into this difficulty when I created the Davy Payne article.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:01, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Asarlai, check this YouTube video clip out. This shows that the UDA themselves admit that the UDA and UFF are indeed one and the same:[1]--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 14:07, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

LOL...what a song. Are you sure you got the URL right? I can't find the bit you're talking about. ~Asarlaí 15:07, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's the right clip. The title says UDA and UFF and seeing that the clip was obviously uploaded by a supporter, it indicates that they themselves consider UDA and UFF interchangeable. Oh, do you think the guy in the Wombles anorak is Davy Payne? I think I recognise Glenn Barr as the blond guy being addressed by the commander (Andy Tyrie?). Isn't that young man with the long hair smoking a cigarette scary-looking?--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 16:17, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

St Patrick's Day

Hi. It's usually the accepted practice that when your edit is reverted in an article you take the matter to the talk page. You do not revert the revert. It's called bold, Revert, Discuss. Please revert your change again and discuss on the article talk page.

In response to what your edit and summary said; "Church Of England" does not equate to "Protestant" (particularly for a chiefly Irish holiday), and "Calendar of saints" does not strictly equate to "religious holiday". Do you have any examples you can give (or cite) that demonstrate St Patrick's Day being celebrated in a religious manner by Protestants? Are these significant and widespread enough to merit mention in the article lead?

Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:20, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

St Patrick's Day is a feast day in the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Anglican Communion and Luthern churches. The Anglican Communion and Lutheran churches are Protestant. I've added that to the infobox along with links to the calendars. There are services held in Church of Ireland (Anglican Communion) churches on St Patrick's Day: see for example [2] and [3]. ~Asarlaí 15:35, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

That looks good. I suppose I've learned something today :) My only other concern would where it says that the Protestant observation of the day followed that which was originally Catholic. Naturally, the Catholic Church is older and everything Protestant originated out of the Catholic. But I think what it says implies that adoption of St Patrick's Day by Protestants is something aside from, or later than, that. In which case, would it be better for the lead to summarise that it is a Christian religious holiday, with greater significance to the Catholic Church, and leave its origins to a later section? --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 18:48, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

That's a good point. How about we simply say which churches observe St Patrick's Day? For example: "It is observed by the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Communion (especially the Church of Ireland), the Eastern Orthodox Church and Lutherans. It became an official feast day in the early 17th century". ~Asarlaí 18:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:20, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

 Done. ~Asarlaí 22:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Farmleigh transl source

Hi. Do we have a source/cite for this? I can't find any, and the Placenames Commission doesn't list a translation for Farmleigh. Guliolopez (talk) 23:13, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

The Irish name is given in the translations of Farmleigh Avenue, Farmleigh Close and Farmleigh Park. It's also given here. ~Asarlaí 23:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

RIC

The IC only became the RIC after the '67 Rising. Gestur (talk) 02:36, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, you're right. I thought you'd removed the "Royal" accidentally. I'll add it back, but remember to use edit summaries for such changes. ~Asarlaí 02:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

OK. Gestur (talk) 03:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Assume good faith

Please assume good faith. Why do you think I actually bothered discussing it with the Irish project in the first place? Because the articles need cleanup and I was intent on helping them and making them consistent. The project had there chance to update the template and I have repeatedly asked what the problem was with the updated one. The situation had grown stale and progress is being impeded. There is really no reason why you need the template, given that the main Irish cities use info box settlement anyway and that I clearly ilustrated that the old template could be switched in articles whilst losing no information. I gave you a big chance to work with me and the comments made by one of your wiki project destroyed all hopes of that. You just don't mess me about like that. If certain members of your project really wanted to improve the articles and make them consistent as much as I do then they'd have been quick to respond with exactly what they wanted and made sure that Stephen implemented it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

I've replied to your deletion proposal here. ~Asarlaí 18:06, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Ideally UK and India would use standard too, but they are coded in a highly complex way which would make overhauling them extremely difficult. India at least is in a standardish appearance, UK place boxes are horrible I think in appearance.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:56, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Armagh, Lisburn & Newry - City Status

Hi, please explain who still regards the above cities as towns even though they have all recently been awarded city status? --Gavin Lisburn (talk) 21:04, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

The Northern Ireland Statistics & Research Agency: see here and here for example. ~Asarlaí 21:33, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Craig

I re-jigged your edits to Craig (given name). The source has the name coming from Scottish Gaelic specifically. I'm not saying it doesn't come from the other languages, the lone source we have just doesn't mention any others. The article shouldn't make it seem like the English name comes from Irish, Manx, or Welsh words, unless we've got a reference for it. Right? I don't think there's any harm in mentioning cognates of the SG word; I just think it's misleading to make it seem like these cognates are actual (or possible) origins of the name.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 05:46, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Republic of Ireland: country / state

My inclination is to agree with the use of country unless in the very unlikely case it can be proven to be contentious as you claim, Asarlaí. As I remarked earlier, in fairness the previous discussions all related to development and use of the parochial and now deprecated IPI infobox, which made the use of "country" somewhat more problematic. You and a few others decided "state" was the least controversial word, but that was because you were developing an infobox that would be used only for the island, with its split sovereignty of the UK and Ireland. The UK itself gets bogged down over what to call its constituent parts, but there is no such question for the Republic, it is a country. {{Infobox settlement}} is used worldwide, as it is intended to be. Your concerns are more associated with the differences within the United Kingdom and how they relate to Ireland. My initial sense was that "state" lessens the sovereignty a bit in the eyes of some, and certainly would among potential American readers who otherwise always call Ireland a "country". The discussion you cite was superseded by the deletion result for the template you were discussing. Therefore, I will continue to use "country" in the infobox and pipe the word to Sovereign state. The use of "state" is unnecessarily ambiguous when "country" is proper and correct. Sswonk (talk) 01:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I'v started a discussion here. ~Asarlaí 08:55, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Celtic languages

You appear to have started an edit war at Celtic Languages (flags again). I reverted BRD and you are suppposed to then discuss the matter at the talk page, but you just reverted again. Is there a reason for this? WizOfOz (talk) 16:10, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

That's not "starting an edit war", that's reverting a very obvious mistake. Irish is not spoken only in the Republic of Ireland. It's also spoken by many in Northern Ireland. It's the native language of the whole iland. The whole iland doesn't hav an official flag either. ~Asarlaí 16:15, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

But according to the Welsh section that language is spoken elsewhere also, so why single out Irish? Anyway, it's only a mistake in your opinion and the correct protocol is not to revert but to discuss. WizOfOz (talk) 16:28, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Start a discussion on the talkpage and I'll add my opinions ther. ~Asarlaí 16:33, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Will do. WizOfOz (talk) 16:35, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Go raibh maith agat as an bhotun sin agam a cheartu. Thanks for catching my muzziness on the Drumcree article. SeoMac (talk) 19:18, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Changes to template:massacres

I noticed that you added List of events named massacres to {{massacres}}. I just wanted to let you know that this list will probably be phased out, mostly due to the fact that there are probably more than 10,000 articles about massacres, and it is not practical to have it all on one list. I am not taking the AfD route for various reasons, including that it contains a valuable edit history and valuable references that are useful in creating its successors. Shaliya waya (talk) 18:53, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you that the list should be divided-up by sovereign state. However, I thought it might be useful to hav that link on the template until the main article is deleted. ~Asarlaí 19:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate all the work you have contributed toward the project of creating these lists. The ultimate goal is not only to list the massacres, but to provide brief descriptions with one or more source each, using the page List of events named massacres as a model. The addition of each article on a massacre to such a list is a huge undertaking, which involves listing it, as well as adding the "list of" page to the see also section of that massacre, and making other appropriate updates. Shaliya waya (talk) 23:28, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Mythology

Whilst it does make sense to provide modern variants of characters such as Nemed and Bres, should you not include a source along with them? Mabuska ^(talk) 12:29, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I'll be adding the sources soon. ~Asarlaí 12:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Falls Curfew

I've just read this article you've had a big hand in. Considering how emotive and potentially politically charged this article could be I find it well written and reasonably concise. Well done, please keep up the good work. Ozdaren (talk) 23:42, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. ~Asarlaí 22:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thanks...

... for all the hard work you're doing ensuring NI-related articles adhere to a NPOV by featuring both regional languages rather than just the one (and the same goes for the Welsh translations on Welsh articles, etc). It's much appreciated. Keep it up. JonChapple^Talk 22:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I wish the Scots and Ulster-Scots folk (or should I say fowk) would agree on a single orthografy tho. They seem to be changing their minds all the time! ~Asarlaí 22:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

The leid does seem to evolving quite a rate. The sources you've provided from 2008 look almost English, but those from last year, with their "männystries" an aw, are something else entirely! JonChapple^Talk 22:48, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

The erlier spellings ar very odd indeed (diacritics galore) but the recent spellings look more like the Scots you'd find in Scotland. No offense to whoever chose the spellings...but I think at the beginning they wer trying to make Ulster-Scots look like an independent language (separat from both English and Scots). Thankfully they seem to hav "toned it down" a bit :-p

~Asarlaí 22:59, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah, my mistake. I was thinking it was getting more elaborate as time goes on, but it appears to be just the opposite. That's a shame; I'm a sucker for diacritics! JonChapple^Talk 12:26, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Another thought: do you think we should make the Irish names smaller in the county infoboxes? I can't help but feel at the moment that where there's a few Ullans translations and they've been made smaller, they look secondary to the Irish name. I know it wasn't your intention, but perhaps it might be an idea to format both names the same for NPOV purposes. JonChapple^Talk 15:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

The reason I made them smaller is becaus (usually) ther's more than one spelling and so they take-up more space than the Irish name. Wher ther's only two Ulster Scots spellings, I'll make them the same size as the Irish spelling. However, I think it'd be sensible to leav the Ulster Scots spellings small on County Londonderry. ~Asarlaí 18:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Good idea. Thanks. JonChapple^Talk 18:45, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Me again. Can I ask why it's in any way more neutral to refer to the Ulster Scots language as the Ulster Scots dialects? A quick Google indicates that Wikipedia seems to the be the only place to use that term, which is bordering on original research, whilst "Ulster Scots langauge" has a slew of results from the official bodies, BBC, etc. The page was originally at Ulster Scots language; do you know why it was moved? I know it's open for debate whether it's a dialect of language, but I'd say it's much less neutral for Wiki to decide it's a dialect. Best, JonChapple^Talk 09:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm saying it's more neutral to call it simply "Ulster Scots" in other articles. If we call it "the Ulster Scots language" we would appear to be taking sides in the debate. ~Asarlaí 10:51, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

In that case the article shouldn't be at Ulster Scots dialects then. That's a POV in itself. JonChapple^Talk 16:29, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

If you think the title should be changed then you should start a debate on the talkpage. ~Asarlaí 16:36, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for fixing up the Braniel page, it needed it. Sorry about the parliamentary map, couldn't find a map that located the Braniel itself, I live in the Roddens part of the Braniel so im trying my best to keep things to the rules of wiki and im new so it doesn't help, if im doing stuff really wrong message me on my wall please or on the articles discussion. Cheers User:EastBelfastBoy 19:31, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Siaradwyr y Gymraeg

I'm ashamed to admit it, but I'm so inexpert at SVG manipulations that I wouldn't know where to begin colour coding File:Wales location map.svg for the Welsh-speaking population (and you're right, it is clearly a superior map). A user called VermillionBird seems to have done the SVG conversion on File:Siaradwyr y Gymraeg ym Mhrif Ardaloedd Cymru2a.svg. I certainly didn't, though I do at least know how to fix the mismatched colour in the code if you'd like me to. (Two censuses have also gone by since the original... Maybe it's time for a whole new map instead.) Q·L·1968 ☿ 23:59, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I noticed the error when I added the SVG map to Welsh language. I think I'll just revert to the original for the time being.

If two censuses hav been held since the map was made then it probably would be a good idea to make a new one. Maybe VermillionBird would be able to help with the color-coding? ~Asarlaí 13:33, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Kingdom of Connacht

Hello Asarlaí. I really like the map you've created at List of kings of Connacht. However, I think you've made Mide too small and Leinster too big. You may want to swap much of north-western Leinster into Mide, as I think Leinster swallowed up a great deal of the latter after the 1169-71 invasion. To the best of my knowledge, Leinster was divided into North and South at the time, and essentially consisted of the territories of Uí Cheinnselaigh and Uí Dúnlainge. Not an exact science, I know, but thanks very much for the addition! Fergananim (talk) 13:22, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't the one who made the maps, I just added them to some articles.

I think the user you'r looking for is ZyMOS (Commons profile).

Thanks anyway tho, you seem very nice :-p

~Asarlaí 13:33, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Irish: official names

Hi,

Please don't use condescending statements like:

"Ros Dumhach is the only official name. The anglicized spelling Rosdoagh and English name Rossport have no official status."

We are all adults here. This is the English wikipedia. This isn't a government website. Governments change and so do their policies. This is not a legal dictionary.

We use the common names of things (not neccessarily the 'official name') - see here.

Thanks. Djegan (talk) 20:21, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how that statement is condesending; it's a statement of fact. Surely readers should be made aware of that fact somwher on the page? Furthermore, I'v put it in an inconspicuous place (as a footnote of the infobox), not in the very first line of the article.

You can re-add the English/anglicized names to the infobox if you like, but they should appear below the Irish name since they hav no official standing. The format should be:

official_name=Ros Dumhach
other_name=Rosdoagh

~Asarlaí 20:43, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

You seem to have missed my point. WP:ON makes it clear that common names should be used before official names. Lets keep on the example we have, lets look at some 'hits':

Ros Dumhach (7,220 hits)

Rosdoagh (4,260 hits)

Rossport (1,430,000 hits)

We aren't here to 'go against the grain' or present personal preferences. We certainly aren't here to be a promoter of government or parliamentary preferences. WP:IMOS may provide more detail. This is th English wiki. Djegan (talk) 21:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

This may be the English Wiki but that doesn't mean we should hide the facts. The fact is that the English/anglicized names of Gaeltacht villages have no official standing. All I'm doing is ensuring that this is made clear by:

• Adding a footnote to the infobox (which is an inconspicuous place)
• Making the Irish name appear first in the infobox and lede

The Irish names still only appear twice in the whole article: the infobox and lede. The English/anglicized names ar still the ones that ar used everywher else.

Also, the IMOS refers to article titles. I'm not asking for these articles to be renamed, just making it clear that the Irish name is the official one. ~Asarlaí 21:35, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Duplicate maps

It's not clear to me why you have added 2 or 3 duplicate maps to Shetland island infoboxes - they provided no genuine additional detail or information that I can see. Ben MacDui 18:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

They show the islands' locations much clearer than the Scotland locator map does. ~Asarlaí 18:05, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

So you think the red dot for e.g. Fair Isle on one map provides more information than the red dot on the existing one? Hardly. Ben MacDui 18:09, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Fair Isle isn't a good example, but generally the maps show the locations much more clearly. In most cases, the red dot appears much bigger than the island. For examle, compare the two maps for Fetlar or the Out Skerries. ~Asarlaí 18:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Definition of Village

Just be aware that there are such things as Urban villages and the term "village" is WP:COMMONly used to refer to places within Dublin. --HighKing (talk) 15:42, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Lough Melvin

Out of curiousity the source provided for the Irish for Lough Melvin doesn't provide any evidence that it is derived from Irish and may be a translation from the English into Irish - hence why i altered the lede to state that it was also called that in the Republic. I don't see exactly how Meilbhe would translate directly into Melvin. Melva or something similar yeah, but Melvin? Sounds possbly like a plantation naming. Mabuska ^(talk) 18:23, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

You do know it really feels like synthesis to use the full translation from Logainm as if it is the origin of a placename when it only provides modern trnaslations of place names. That is factally incorrect as how on earth does sliabh sound like the derivation for mountain? Mabuska ^(talk) 18:39, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

The fact that the loch is named Lough Melvin rather than Lake Melvin or Melvin's Lake points to an Irish origin. On the shore of the loch ther is a townland named Edenvella, from Éadan Mheilbhe meaning "hill-brow of Meilbhe" (look it up on Logainm). I hav no idea how the -n got ther, but stranger things hav happend to Irish names (see Upperlands for example).

You'r right tho, we don't hav any sources (yet) confirming that the name comes from Irish. Until then, I think the best solution is to write "Lough Melvin (Irish: Loch Meilbhe)..." as most of the loch is on the Co Leitrim side of the border.

As for Belmore Mountain, how about we write "Belmore Mountain (from Irish: Béal Mór)" and keep Sliabh Bhéal Mór for the infobox?

~Asarlaí 19:00, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

As most of it is in the Republic, the (Irish: Loch Meilbhe) would make sense, however when we debated the IMoS on place names, we never thought how to deal with geographical features such as this. Believe it or not it is possible to get Upperlands out of Áth an Phoirt Leathain, though going by how fast some of the people around that area speak i'm not surprised it got anglicised into Upperlands which doesn't sound very Irish origin at all.

In regards to Belmore Mountain that's what i had before you reverted it as quite simply only the Belmore bit is derived from Irish. I left the infobox alone as thats for modern translations of places. Thats how i was treating the articles which contained names derived from English and Irish - only providing the derivation of the Irish bit which is still technically correct according to IMoS i think. Mabuska ^(talk) 22:25, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Can i go and makes these changes? Mabuska ^(talk) 20:51, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Which changes? ~Asarlaí 21:17, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Changes that mean only providing the derivation of the Irish part of a placename, i.e. Belmore Mountain (from Irish: Béal Mór) whilst keeping the modern translation, i.e. Sliabh Bhéal Mór in the infobox. Makes more sense than suggesting that mountain is an anglicisation of sliabh, which is actually slieve, i.e. Slieve Gallion. Mabuska ^(talk) 10:40, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

By all means! (silly me, I thought it had alredy been done). ~Asarlaí 15:31, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Hounding

Asarlaí, whilst I've no problem with the changes you've just made at Flags of country subdivisions, I can't help but notice that you'd never edited it before now and I don't think it's the first time this has happened. Have you been trawling through my contributions? JonC^Talk 12:45, 15 September 2011 (UTC)