Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/34

Template:WPFF Navigation

Welcome to the discussion page. This page provides space for community members to discuss housekeeping, project and article issues. Click here to add an issue to the discussion below, or here to edit the page to respond to a specific issue.

Effective May 2007, all topics with the

Resolved

template will be archived after three to five days. This keeps the talkpage fresh with current issues. All resolved topics can be viewed in the respective archives to your left.

The current month's archive is here.

Roll call: June

Please sign your name below.

1. — Judgesurreal777 19:36, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
2. — Anomie 20:10, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
3. — Bluerで す。 20:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
4. — ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 21:10, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
5. — --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 21:35, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
6. — Sjones23 23:17, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
7. — PresN 00:42, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
8. — Teggles 01:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
9. — Deckiller 01:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
10. — Shadowfyre 08:26, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
11. — Axem Titanium 16:22, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
12. — ShiraShira 19:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
13. — --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 18:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC) Slow, but probably getting better.
14. — Renmiri Still around, slow but here 01:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
15. — Gavin Scott 19:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
16. — KrytenKoro 06:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Characters of FFX article

I haven't checked Wikipedia for almost over a week because of my Internet connection being down. The Characters of Final Fantasy X article needs a lot of work, so a lot of help is required. I would be appreciated if you respond to this. Thanks. Sjones23 19:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, I really need some help on this article since I am back on Wikipedia. Sjones23 19:46, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Will try to help what I can. — Bluerで す。 20:10, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Anyone else? Sjones23 21:48, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Count me in. It would be good if we can specific what are the issues that need to be addressed =) --Cyktsui 23:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I strongly urge you to create a To Do box on the discussion page so we can coordinate what needs to be done and strike what has been accomplished on the way to GA. Judgesurreal777 00:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

And also, Deckiller already listed in the now archived discussion his suggestions for what needed to be done...Judgesurreal777 03:38, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I've created a to do list here from Deckiller's suggestions. Sjones23 13:55, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts peer review

Hey, everyone, please comment on the Kingdom Hearts peer review. A couple of editors and I are FA-pushing it. This is quite in the same vein as the above. Axem Titanium 18:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)

I looked this article over, and it is in need of major surgery. It is in universe in parts, isn't set up like the newer fictional character articles, and has some copyediting needed. Judgesurreal777 05:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Is there really a necessity to disambiguate the game that he appears in? (for instance, it's Yuna (Final Fantasy), not Yuna (Final Fantasy X).) Or are there multiple Sephiroths that i am unaware of? hbdragon88 03:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Sephiroth is also part of the Jewish Kabbalah. — Bluerで す。 04:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of the need to disambiguate from other things. I was questioning the necessity of needing to add "VII" to the end of the current article title. hbdragon88 05:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, it can probably be safely changed...Judgesurreal777 05:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Geez, how many different names does this character have?! And this "Safer Sephiroth" – what is that supposed to mean? Sounds like a poster boy for a "don't drink and drive" poster. hbdragon88 05:35, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Safer Sephiroth is the name of his final (sorta) form in which he has 7 wings and no legs. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 14:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, this article has lost GA status....guess it really did need some work. :) Judgesurreal777 02:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

How ironical that after all these "hasty merges", the one article which gets de-listed is one that wasn't affected by a merge or a split... Kariteh 07:10, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Point. Although it does need work like the rest of the FF7 character GAs. — Deckiller 10:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

(reset by Deckiller) Not so. There are other articles delisted. Two GA articles got merged into Spira (Final Fantasy) transforming two GA class articles into a hodgepodge of disjointed game facts that hardly qualifies as an article worthy of Wikipedia - see the cleanup tag - let alone WPFF class. Renmiri 00:42, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but that is totally false. Neither article was up to GA status, and the combined one is marginally better, in either case each needed an out of universe perspective, lots of references and copyediting. Judgesurreal777 00:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I beg you pardon ? They were both GA, just look at the history. Do I have to take a screenshot ? Besides, the current article is nowhere near the level those two were. because it was just "stapled together" without narrative so it is definitely a change for the worst Renmiri 19:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to improve the merged article. Kariteh 19:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

As I posted on the article talk page, I don't even know where to begin :( Renmiri 02:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

A new focus (IMPORTANT)

Resolved

Okay, this is going to get out of hand if it continues. Let's leave all the articles alone except for the game articles. Let's focus on getting all the game articles to GA or FA. That's something everyone can enjoy. Let's focus on that, and take a break from the controversial stuff. That can be addressed another time. Final Fantasy IX and Final Fantasy XI are really close, and several people mentioned an interest in getting Final Fantasy Tactics Advance to at least GA. A break from the controversial stuff is needed. — Deckiller 02:39, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• Sounds like a good plan. Renmiri 03:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Then stick with it! I do not want to see another so-called merger. p/s: FFT is already a GA. — Bluerで す。 03:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant Tactics advanced. Bluer, I'm sorry that these mergers haven't been completed, done the right way, gone too far, done to quickly, etc. I am partially at fault for that. Merging should be off the radar for now, and if they are needed in the future, we will ensure that they are done at the right time (I.E. when Gameplay of Final Fantasy is actually established). I think we can agree that some of the merges have been good, but I understand why you'd be upset with a few of the other ones. I think it's clear we may have taken things a little too far or, at least, too fast. But let's put that aside and focus on the main game articles. Will you still be with us with these main article pushes? — Deckiller 04:14, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• But yeah, this is probably for the best. We start from the top and work our way down. Get all the game articles to GA, then the game subarticles, and then we focus on the controversial stuff (common themes, etc). I suggested this earlier, but hopefully everyone will agree now. — Deckiller 04:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Deckiller, we need to refocus on being productive, and remember that we are the second best Wikiproject there is, and stop beating ourselves up for following clearly defined Wikipedia policies. I know of no other wikiproject of our relatively small size that has anywhere NEAR the amount of Featured and Good Articles as we have, and we should not apologize for our good work and for following what was expected from a good encyclopedia. So lets get back to the work we love, we merged over 50 articles in the last few months after all, and that is great, but that's enough for now. Judgesurreal777 04:28, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's coming back to bite us. We did it too fast, and we overcompensated. Final Fantasy IX and Final Fantasy XI seem like good first targets for FAC. Both are more than halfway. — Deckiller 04:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• In the words of Selphie, "Everyone! Love! and Peace!". — Deckiller 04:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed :) Let's sustain what has been done and build, after all, look at all the new good articles! :) Judgesurreal777 04:38, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

• • This means I'll actually have to finish Final Fantasy IX. I've had it for six years and for some reason I just don't bother finishing it. I end up clearing the save and trying harder for a "complete game". --Teggles 04:53, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
• Look, you guys will have to do at least part of those FA pushes without me. I'm taking a break from this WikiProject to gain some valuable strategic distance, especially after today. This project's goal is still a great one, but I think it's time for a break on my end :) — Deckiller 05:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we should all try to cool down, I for one have never taken so much time just talking about articles and not improving them before! :) Judgesurreal777 06:03, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, some distance. I think for the next 2+ weeks I'll focus on the redo of WP:FICT and FACs. Then we can come back, refreshed. We're all just too tired and entrenched right now. Perhaps I'm overstating it because I'm exausted :) — Deckiller 06:11, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

This is a good direction. I have for some time now expressed an interest in getting FFIX up to GA, and these mergers have been good ideas, but they were done too quickly and have been shoddy and a distraction from more productive work. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 13:45, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

That's three of us interested in FFIX. I've been picking away at it for the last week or so, and I've actually had my eyes on it since last August, but never got around to is. Perhaps we should get that and XI done first. — Deckiller 00:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Seems some others have already noticed, but I've undid the merges on Characters of FF3, 5, and TA. I believe that various other articles should probably be de-merged as well, but I'll leave that to the judgment of others. Also... JudgeSurreal, please be careful about merging articles that have images in them. Orphaned FU images can and will be deleted, so if a merger goes awry, work done by other contributors can be lost. I realize that you didn't think it would be reverted at the time, but that's a reason to be extra-super-careful on these things.

While I don't want to distract people from getting back to work on the main articles, some of these articles certainly could use work. Perhaps we should wait until any possible revisions to WP:FICT are worked out, though, so as not to waste time on an article that might be quietly deleted anyway. (Unless the work you want to do is add reception type stuff, in which case have a blast.) SnowFire 01:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Restored Characters of FF2 too. Kariteh 07:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

There are many ways of improving content that don't rely on WP:FICT's outcome, so I don't see why that should hold us up. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣ 17:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VI to be on Main Page!

Resolved

Congratulations WikiProject! Final Fantasy VI is to be featured on the Main Page Today's Featured Article on June 20! Editors, let's get it on and ensure the article be ready for the stipulated date, and watch out for vandals! — Bluerで す。 11:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

What the? A fair-use image on the main page? I... I... never thought it would be possible. (Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross have been refused on the main page because of fair-use stuff or something). Congratulations for FFVI in any case! Kariteh 11:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Wonder how many bitches about "yet another game article" there will be...not to mention the third FF game... ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 12:06, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Good luck, everyone! Sjones23 12:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

We should use this to our advantage by cleaning up the topic (the world/character/music articles, etc), since it will be getting some publicity. Also, our fair use (whoops, "non-free") policies are a joke and lawyer wank (there goes my chances for being a b-crat, since someone will dig this comment up...). — Deckiller 13:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, as a reminder, watch out for vandals. If there is vandalism, revert them and keep this page protected at all costs. :D Once again, I wish you all good luck. Thanks and congratulations. Let's go for it! Fire away Sjones23 19:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm back for this moment to bodyguard our treasure for a week or so. Also, I think you guys have convinced me to return. I have some plans for a GA push for FFIV in-universe related lists (Characters and worlds). Maybe I can stop griping and start using these merges to my political advantage (ie using the resources I have to make a listy article GA or FA). --Sir Crazyswordsman 02:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Fantastic, great to have you back :) Judgesurreal777 02:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm amazed you manage to keep all the games from being merged to a Final Fantasy games article. Good job. --88.90.79.133 13:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Somehow I think if we couldn't prove the featureability of FFIV, FFVI, and Chrono Trigger, we wouldn't have articles on those games. But we proved otherwise. --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:07, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Nah, it's not that extreme; it probably will never get to that point, either. It's mostly about articles on topics within the fictional universes.

Weird...they didn't put the box art on the front page thing. Is there a new policy instituted by the copyright Nazis about box art in FAs? --Sir Crazyswordsman 00:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

They're using a picture of the SNES! What is up with that? Back when FFVII and FFX were Today's Featured, they used the Box Art. Why not now??? — Bluerで す。 00:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Some Wikipedians have been enjoying legal/legalese/NFC masturbation. — Deckiller 01:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone change it back to the game box image? This is wikipedia after all. Judgesurreal777 02:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

No, main page means that only an admin can do it. --PresN 07:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd rather have no pic than an SNES pic, so its fine with me.

And seeing as I got an "assume good faith" warning for my joke above, I'll clarify that it was sarcasm. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia. As a means to that end, we have a lot of legal issues to deal with. Because the main page has so much traffic and only shows a minor bit of each article, NFC on the main page is decorative and generally unnecessary. — Deckiller 12:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's going to complain that FFVI is on the main page. That's a great article.

As for the box image, recently Jimbo has asked that non-free images not be used on the main page, due to the lack of the possibility of sufficient commentary. I'm ambivalent, myself, but it's an understandable position. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes and besides the pictures are just one click away anyway. Other language Wikipedias have much more restrictive positions. Kariteh 10:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, and of course we have to listen to Herr Jimbo, even though Square doesn't care about fansites hosting their images. --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

They do, however, often care about people selling publications using their copyrighted images. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:44, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Now, now kids! No one is selling publications here so drop the strawman aMIB and Jimbo has some valid concerns so drop the german CSM. Today is a happy day for the project so let's try to be a good happy team. Don't make me go there! (what I tell my kids when they fight) Renmiri 23:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not a strawman. The reason Wikipedia doesn't allow non-commercial use is because it is explicitly intended to be able to be repackaged into for-sale form. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 00:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well we intend this to be used for noncommercial purposes, no? I mean, if someone were to mooch off Wikipedia we'd probably get involved sooner than Square. It's like with fanarts, you'd sooner see the artist get pissed than the copyright owner. --Sir Crazyswordsman 13:16, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

No, actually. The way I understand it, is that it's perfectly legal to sell WP content so long as the GFDL is followed. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 13:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, for instance free images which can "only be used for non-commercial purposes" are even forbidden at commons.wikimedia.org. Kariteh 13:29, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

That's a stupid idea. Is there a reason the creators picked the GDFL (a license I completely despise) over Creative Commons, a free, noncommercial license? The whole idea of having people mooch off of us disturbs me. --Sir Crazyswordsman 23:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Jenova

Resolved

This article is in worse condition than Sephiroth, so we definitely need to take a look at it; no out of universe anything, and it's written in universe. Judgesurreal777 02:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII), in case anyone missed it, what Judge is referring to is that it got delisted as a GA yesterday, and rightly so. --PresN 11:25, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The "ruining Wikipedia" crap

Resolved

oh god not again—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 06:39, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Um. Can someone else deal with this? I don't need to be 3RR'd again because some IP doesn't realize he can't have his bottle.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 06:42, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I had a vandal (probably the same person) assaulting my userpage and spreading nasty comments about other users. I don't care; people immature enough to resort to vandalism are probably the type who use Wikipedia as their opium to contribute everything they know about the only topic they know. — Deckiller 11:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted the vandal. Sjones23 19:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, make sure vandalism in both of these pages will be treated with a block. Thanks. Sjones23 20:00, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Articles on Real World Items

A few pages about things existing in the real world, but more famously existing in the world(s) of Final Fantasy, have been merged into the Final Fantasy project. Should articles such as Gunblade, describing real world objects as well as popular culture references (i.e. Final Fantasy), really be merged into the Final Fantasy project? There is information about such items that is not available on any of the Final Fantasy project pages. Redirecting to these pages is more likely to misinform than to inform readers as it indicates that these items only exist in the game. Rather than redirecting a real world item article to a fantasy world page containing 3 words about how the item appears in a game, it would be better to link the game article to the item article. --Cameron.walsh 15:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Gunblades "exist" in the real world, but I don't think they are called gunblades. That name is specific to Final Fantasy VIII. --Teggles 19:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Good point, in the real world they are called "Sword Guns" or "Pistol Swords". However, no wikipedia article exists for any combination of two of sword, gun, pistol, blade etc. The name is not specific to FFVIII, it also exists in Parasite Eve and Wild Arms. Gunblade NY was also the name of an (unrelated) Arcade game by Sega. This indicates a few more options:

1. Move the article to "Sword Gun" or "Pistol Sword" and redirect Gunblade to that.
2. Create a disambiguation page for Gunblade (links to or descriptions of: "Sword Gun", FF weapon, PE weapon, WA weapon, Sega arcade game)
3. Keep the more common name of "Gunblade" and rephrase the article to indicate that "Pistol Sword" might be a better name.

Merging Gunblade into the Final Fantasy project is not the answer because "Gunblade" is not specific to Final Fantasy. --Cameron.walsh 03:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I was going through the notability guidelines, in case pistol swords would fail the notability criteria, but the template seems to apply to higher-level concepts like books, companies, games and so forth, rather than actual objects. At the moment I'm considering moving the Gunblade article to Pistol sword, rewording it to focus more on the real-world object, keeping the popular culture section for FF and other references. At the top of the popular culture section I'd put "Gunblade links here, for the Sega Arcade Game 'Gunblade NY' please visit Sega Model 2." Gunblade would then redirect to Pistol Sword#Pistol Swords in Popular Culture or similar. I'll leave this suggestion up for comments for a few more days. --Cameron.walsh 04:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Release dates

Resolved

Why are all Final Fantasy articles' release dates against VG Project's guidelines about release dates? Date preference formatting doesn't work if you use the "in video gaming" links. I tried changing the release dates in Final Fantasy IX but was swiftly reverted. --Mika1h 21:03, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I reverted it. I was embarrassed to discover that "in video gaming" links were removed (and I was not really impressed at all that the links were removed). I prefer to go by the "in video gaming" links. I am not against this policy. By the way, if I made a mistake, Mika1h, I apologize. :D Greg Jones II 21:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I've restored the preference formatting. Greg Jones II 21:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

A small request for the lists

Do you guys think it's possible, to link to the character articles individually on my wiki for articles which didn't survive? That way those who want to learn more can more easily, through a single link, and those who get scared away can know there's a place for them. Although Wikipedia is meant to provide a brief overview, we have the obligation to direct people to places where they can learn more. --Sir Crazyswordsman 03:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

All cast of character articles should have links to the character category at the Final Fantasy Wikia; it would probably make the external links section too long to list all the chars. Every article here should have a wikilink to a Final Fantasy Wikia page. Perhaps each cast of characters article can provide wikilinks to each related category to make it more prominant (main characters category, etc.) — Deckiller 03:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with automatic linking. The articles should link to the FF Wikia only if the link has additional and interesting information to propose, just like with any external link. For instance, I don't think a link to Category:Final Fantasy characters is useful in the FFI article, since the Wikia category is filled with a small dozen of one-liner stubs. A link to Squall Leonhart in the Squall Leonhart article is also not necessary, since the Wikipedia article already really covers everything about Squall and the Wikia link doesn't add much. Kariteh 07:47, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The Squall one doesn't add too much, but most of them do, I think, and I think it's, if nothing else, a good gesture to just make it across the board to always try to link to something relevant at the wikia for FF articles. I agree with Deckiller, though, that it should be to the category for character list articles, as 10+ external links gets a bit cluttered. --PresN 12:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Is there any policy that says that Wikias have a privilege concerning external links? I don't see why systematically linking to them everywhere would be benefical. I mean, we could probably find for some particular entries a "better" site than the Wikia, but even still fansites seem shunned in Wikipedia (for good reasons), while you're implying here that Wikias are privilegied regardless of their usefulness. Kariteh 11:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's CoN, which I still think is better than my site. But we have to link somewhere. If we don't link anywhere, we're saying "This character is not notable and this is the only information you ever need to know about this character." We don't want to give that impression. --Sir Crazyswordsman 13:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

AFAIK encyclopedias are meant to give you a comprehensive well thought out summary then link you to other more detailed sources. And as far as external linking there were some criteria: notability ( FF Wiki), preference for non-commercial sites to avoid WP to be used as free advertising ( FF Wiki), quality / reliability of the site ( FF Wiki), etc... Besides, considering Wikia is a sister of WP what is with the objection to linking to it ? Renmiri 02:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Please don't forget that notability is not inherited. Just because the FF Wikia as a whole qualifies doesn't mean that every entry it contains automatically qualifies. If an entry is not interesting because it's just a non-informative one-liner (or if it has even less information than here), is a link really useful? Sure, it could be useful to have the link so that potential Wikia contributors see it and expand it, but the same thing could be said for any other website (it's easier to edit a wiki than e-mail a non-wiki site yes, but still). Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Wikia, but I just want for the criterias for external links to be followed and "fair". If there's a policy that says that sister projects can be linked to automatically, then it's fine and definitely benefical for these sister projects, but I don't know if there's such a policy. Kariteh 07:47, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Your contention lacks foresight: As a wiki editor you should have realized by now that active Wikis are under continuous improvement so the one liner stub article of today will be the FA class article of tomorrow. FF Wiki has a large group of dedicated editors constantly filling up stub articles with thousands of edits a day. Linking to it is a very sensible policy. Besides, you can always expand the one liner FF wiki article yourself if you are unwilling to wait. Unlike a commercial external site, FF Wiki is open to ALL wikipedia editors, free of charge Renmiri 19:32, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, but again, why privilegiate FF Wikia when there are other sites, like this one? Kariteh 19:53, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Awww you are so sweet! That is my site!! :D But this is precisely the reason I advocate FF Wiki: My site is a personal site, and although I don't intend to, what guarantees can you have that I won't start acting all snooty and say X and Y users won't be able to edit my Wiki ? Or charge for access ? At Wikia we have those guarantees because it is a sister project. See my point ? Renmiri 20:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Mmh, well okay I guess. But what about FFXIclopedia which is linked in Final Fantasy XI? There's no guarantee here either. Kariteh 20:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. We shouldn't be linking to private sites when there is a perfectly good alternative on a sister site. Like I said above, Wikia should take precedence over private sites, even when talking about my own site. Private site owners had the bad handicap of having something called a life and can not be counted to be around if their real life takes precedence ;) Renmiri 23:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

But can I remove this FFXIclopedia link? There was a discussion on the FFXI talk page which led to the link being added, with the reasoning that although it's a private fansite it's also a "premier site" acknowledged by the FFXI official site. Kariteh 07:36, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I vote to remove it if you have concerns about it. But then again, we can make an exception if it's a very notable private site. How big is the External links section anyway ? Does a link to this place really add value to the article ? Renmiri 18:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I second the vote. We have a guideline for ELs, but it seems that the FFXI article has more unnotable ELs than the other FF articles? WHy the special treatment? — Bluerで す。 19:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I remember Deck telling me that part of the reason he okayed the merges was because of the FF Wikia articles. So wouldn't it be right for Deck to follow through on his promise? We are required to give "further reading" --Sir Crazyswordsman 04:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It's a fair compromise to have at least category links on articles. Following policies and guidelines is good, but sometimes localized consensus and agreement overcomes those suggestions/rules. — Deckiller 04:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

That was the one of the reasons I believed/believe in the mergers, was the understanding that the content would not be "lost", but "relocated". Judgesurreal777 05:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

(reset) Wikipedia Annex is up. It's a resting place/transition for fictional material that does not yet have a wikia home or needs to be reorganized before being moved to a wikia. Renmiri started the idea. — Deckiller 05:56, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Paine still has an article?

After all this merging and stuff? Wow. --Sir Crazyswordsman 03:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Seeing that all there is in there is in-universe info, I've redirected it to the Characters article. — Bluerで す。 03:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the material merged in the FFX-2 article. At any rate, I don't mind the merge as long as that characters of FFX-2 article is reorganized into headings. — Deckiller 03:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I reverted the change because nothing was merged into Characters of Final Fantasy X-2, and I really mean nothing. I support the merging of it (somewhat), but that was not a merge. :) Perhaps I'll merge it later if no one else it up for it. I haven't done any merges (afaik), so I might not be the best person for it, but I guess it's a good learning point. --Teggles 04:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

My point in doing that is a redirect and not a merger. Good luck in doing the merging :) — Bluerで す。 05:13, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I've merged it. I only created the first and last paragraph, the middle two were just copied. :/--Teggles 06:02, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:POINT issues aside, I don't think anyone has done a simple redirect in the past, at least not when there was no info already on the target article :-P — Deckiller 06:08, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

We might want to take care of the FF7/FF10 character pages sometime soon to be fair; people may incorrectly assume a systematic bias (FF7 was the worst in the series IMO, so it's definitely not bias). — Deckiller 03:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to make a quick point about the whole question of mergers and the Good article status drive; one of the reasons I became very gung ho about these two drives is because it helps us on our way to having many Featured Topics. Now that we have our model, Final Fantasy VIII topic, we know what is possible, and with some careful restructuring of FF7 and FF10 character articles, we could be on our way to several featured topics from the same wikiproject, yet another impressive first from this group. :) Judgesurreal777 06:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

For example, now that the Chocobo restructuring happened, once I and others get the Chocobo article and the other two games up to GA status....maybe try to get two FA chocobo articles...Chocobo Featured Topic? Laugh, but Kingdom Hearts is rapidly getting there, and not long ago their articles were thought to be terrible :) Judgesurreal777 06:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Good luck finding sources for the Chocobo article. Did you know the existence of the mobile game "Choco-mate"? Kariteh 07:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I wonder if it's feasible for the non-Nomura games (FFVI, for instance) to become a featured topic? --Sir Crazyswordsman 13:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Probably, as long interviews and whatnot can be found. — Deckiller 00:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I was considering a merger of the FFX and FFX2 character articles. If we merge this, a lot of this redundant stuff can end. Greg Jones II 14:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy IX is a candidate for Featured Article

Resolved

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy IX. I encourage everyone to check it out and evaluate it. Don't blindly vote support, review the article and decide for yourself. --Teggles 04:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Redemption

You might be interested in a discussion on Talk:Redemption (song), since the article was previously merged and has been de-merged. Kariteh 14:17, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Cloud Strife, Aerith Gainsborough and Jenova

These three articles have had their Good Article status removed. I completely agree with it. Sure, we look better with more GAs, but I don't think that's what this project is about - I hope not. P.S. Traitor? Heh.--Teggles 19:39, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Damn, I forgot to tell him to archive that discussion :-D. Since our goal is GA+ status for all relevant articles, it looks like we're cheating if we keep sub-par GAs. — Deckiller 19:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

As long as List of Final Fantasy titles remains a Featured Article (even though it contains two stub sections and lacks sources), there's not much danger for FAs to get de-listed anyway. Kariteh 19:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

To be fair, those section-stubs were added when the list changes its focus. — Deckiller 19:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not 100% sure about the reasons given, but I agree those aren't GA class. I also don't think anyone should be concerned about being considered a "traitor" for delisting articles that obviously aren't good enough (Yeah, I found that discussion too). Anomie 19:55, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

The "traitor" thing was mostly just a joke, but I did feel that someone from the outside should do it to satisfy any wikilawyers. — Deckiller 20:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I just did a lot of removal and modifications of Aerith Gainsborough, probably the worst off. Gems:

• "Aerith often puts on a naïve persona, but, in reality, is a wise and understanding person who knows what’s going on with the Planet and its people"
• "Aerith was apparently romantically involved with Zack, although she claims it wasn't serious"
• "After Aerith and Cloud meet during the game, she appears to be very flirtatious with him"
• "the only changes being the absence of her red jacket, the ribbon in her hair being red as opposed to pink, her gold bangles being replaced with silver bracelets on her left wrist, and the presence of a purple belt."
• "Aerith is seen serving sweet beverages, drinks that Leon dislikes due to their sweet flavors."

Fanboys. Don't you love them? --Teggles 06:23, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• • Heh. I've come to realize that the best stories are those like Suikoden, FF12, and of course, Xenosaga. Most FFs are ridiculous in hindsight. — Deckiller 06:46, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• You forgot Chrono Trigger. --Sir Crazyswordsman 22:07, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

• I was referring to games w/o evil guys wanting to destroy the world :) Lavos technically counts as that. — Deckiller 22:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

New notability guideline proposed

Resolved

Check out the talkpage of WP:FICT. I got bored, so I decided to propose it early. — Deckiller 21:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to let your voice be heard. This rewrite is based on our experiences and successes. — Deckiller 15:18, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't feel pressured into it, but the proposed party usually has to have a lot of outspokenness, so anyone who agrees with the proposal are more than welcomed to support it, and those who disagree should make a comment on what should be altered. — Deckiller 05:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Time to do stuff

Alright, it appears there are no current "projects", so here's something to do: get Aerith Gainsborough back to Good Article. I did a fair bit of removal and rewriting to remove original research, unnecessary details etc., but it's still a problem. Here's a to-do list:

• Rewrite Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children section to a concise version.
• Rewrite and possibly expand the "Before Crisis: Final Fantasy VII" and "Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core" sections
• Expand the development section
• Expand the reception section
• Possibly merge "Cameo appearances" with "Other appearances"

Anyone up for it? --Teggles 09:07, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Not me right now; got my hands full comitting political suicide with the FICT rewrite.

Oh, and....

RUSH CONCERT TONIGHT!!!! — Deckiller 13:55, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, never subscribe to the Wiki-En-I mailing list. It's a scum hive. — Deckiller 14:02, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

See also Talk:Aerith Gainsborough#It's Aeris in FFVII. Kariteh 14:21, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, merge Characters of Final Fantasy X with Characters of Final Fantasy X-2 as well ASAP if you can. Greg Jones II 21:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Right now I'm merging some Pokémon into List of Pokémon (421-440). All of the articles follow the same format...

• 1. Information about the Pokémon franchise (a text copy-pasted into every lead)
• 2. Game-guide information (X evolves into Y at Level Z, has attacks X and Y)
• 3. Useful (!) appearance information in anime

It's surprisingly easy to merge because of that. The hard part is standing up to the many people who are going to reject it for unknown reasons - it beats me why they want an article with the same information as a merged article. But that's yet to happen, so I won't accuse anyone of anything! --Teggles 05:25, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I take it Final Fantasy XI isn't the priority anymore? Kariteh 14:57, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

As for Characters of FFX and X-2, the two articles put together weight about 108 kb 160 kb even with redundant parts removed; the articles may need to be cleanly trimmed first before being merged. Kariteh 19:31, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Uh... yeah. If we merge those two articles after we cleanly trim these two articles, we would put the Final Fantasy X-2 text in after the summary of the characters in the FFX story and the summary of the characters in. We should also remove those extremely minor characters first. Also, we need to add the voice actors in the character articles. Greg Jones II 19:49, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Even though I created the infoboxes for characters, I think we should remove them. The voice actors should be placed in the prose, where we can discuss their experiences (I'm sure at least one has brought up their character in an interview) --Teggles 00:27, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I am not even sure if your plan would work, Teggles, but that is a good idea. Greg Jones II 14:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Voice actor/ress prose? That should be placed in the respective VA's article instead, shouldn't it? And the VA infobox exists, while the list of VAs in the game article is regarded trivia and removed, why? — Bluerで す。 15:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

As what Bluerfn pointed out to me in one of the entries of my sandbox move, try to use the infobox used for the main characters as seen in the characters of FFX article so that the voice cast and image can be organized well. Greg Jones II 17:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

"That should be placed in the respective VA's article instead, shouldn't it?" - no, not really. That's the equivalent of placing Tetsuya Nomura's perspective of a character in his page instead of the character's page. I made the infobox just because the table thrown into the prose was annoying. I suppose it's no problem to have the infoboxes, but I'm still keeping them removed for the minor characters. --Teggles 05:20, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

FFIX is now FA

I'd like to be the first to say Congratulations to the Wikiproject Final Fantasy for yet another FA-class article: Final Fantasy IX! Cheers to all who have contributed, subtly or significantly! — Bluerで す。 18:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use

Hi everyone here, I just thought I'd give you all a heads up of this I stumbled across; User:Durin/Fair Use Overuse. As you know, the self-appointed powers that be of Wikipedia have taken it upon themselves to tag numerous images without giving editors a chance to add rationales. In this list the user has kept, a few articles from this Project are present so please be wary, and take whatever action you deem necessary to address the fair use issue. Inform all the other projects also, as a few other articles from other Projects are on this list. LuciferMorgan 16:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia's treatment of images is unprofessional and laughable, to say the least. Not singling anyone out, but overall, it's ridiculous. Thanks for the heads up. — Deckiller 16:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Durin's list is a list of pages with the most images. It exists because oftentimes such lists are full of non-free images, generally without actual or potential fair-use rationales, so administrators (or knowledgeable users, really) need to go through and make sure that valid rationales are present for each image. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

• Not only that, but Foundation:Resolution:Licensing policy item #3 stipulates that fair use images must be used minimally. The fair use overuse list wasn't constructed to look for missing fair use rationales. It was constructed to hunt down articles where fair use images were/are overused. The top article extant on that list is Characters of Final Fantasy X. It currently has 29 fair use images. It's hard to defend an article's minimal use when it has 29 copyrighted images on it.
• Indeed I echo LuciferMorgan's concern. There are a considerable number of Final Fantasy articles on that list, and they will most likely be touched by people working to reduce fair use overuse. Far better to have members of this project reduce this overuse than to have someone unfamiliar with FF do so. --Durin 17:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I think people editing the article lost track of the way we had set it up last year. We had links to images but limited images on the page itself. 29 images are NOT needed Renmiri 21:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, requiring a valid fair-use rationale does limit non-free images to minimal use. In the unlikely event that we could write valid fair-use rationales justifying each use of 65 non-free images in a single article, that would be fine. It's just nearly impossible to justify that many images. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 17:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

It's funny you bring up Characters of Final Fantasy X, because just yesterday I started removing fair use images for minor characters. All you need is patience. --Teggles 00:21, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions article lost its box art image due to lack of fair-use rationale. — Bluerで す。 08:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

There is vandalism here on Wikipedia:WikiProject Final Fantasy. We need to stop them from editing this page at once. Greg Jones II 17:53, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It's from the various sockpuppets of User:Headstrust. My userpage and usertalkpage have been assaulted for weeks now, and a sweeping IP block needs to occur to prevent the child from accessing grownup stuff. — Deckiller 18:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, god have mercy on Headstrust and his/her sockpuppets for vandalizing this page. We will treat this page with a block if we can. I can't believe he/she used sockpuppets! See WP:SOCK and WP:VANDAL. This vandalism is a huge disgrace. Headstrust has underestimated us. Greg Jones II 19:41, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I have now contacted information about this situation to User:Darthgriz98 at User talk:Darthgriz98. Greg Jones II 19:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Whatever the motives are, hopefully his/her attacks won't require us to protect the page. — Bluerで す。 19:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Correct. Greg Jones II 19:52, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up Sjones, I blocked Headstrust, who wasn't blocked at ALL for having so many suspected sock puppets, indefinitely with an autoblock. This situation deserves an autoblock, but if I wrongly blocked the user I will unblock them, but I doubt that is necessary. The next step would be just wait and see if that stops them from creating accounts, and if not, auto block every sock. BTW, this project does some great stuff on Wikipedia, keep it up :). DarthGriz98 00:40, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

"WikiProject Final Fantasy sucks ass and should be nuked." Uh, okay. I'm not sure what his problem is. --Teggles 00:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

He probably lost some of his work during the consolidation. Which is laughable, since we all did. Hell, I did more work on some of those articles than the vandal. — Deckiller 00:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I remember someone making articles on individual Xenosaga characters... - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, two years ago. And I redeemed myself. — Deckiller 02:17, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Redirects are nice but clean up is necessary too

Electro-Mag Rod has been nominated for deletion. Please vote/discuss on Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 July 1#Electro-Mag Rod → Turks (Final Fantasy VII)#Reno. Kariteh 21:45, 1 July 2007 (UTC)