Category talk:Afrikaner people
|WikiProject Ethnic groups||(Rated NA-class)|
|WikiProject Africa / Namibia / South Africa||(Rated Category-class)|
Afrikaners as an ethnical group is way too distinctive to label all white South Africans with Afrikaans surnames as "Afrikaners". A white Afrikaans-speaking South African should show/admire some compassion or part into the unique Afrikaner culture, at least, to be possibly considered (NOT "labeled") an Afrikaner. Without this personal insight into each and every one of these persons, I think this is ridiculous and this sort of blind classification of all these people into the Category:Afrikaners should stop. Continue discussion here. --WickedHorse 20:29, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
- We all agree that the Afrikaner ethnic group does in fact exist. It is however also a fact that people don't get asked in interviews what their ethnic classification is. Therefore requesting such evidence would render it impossible to provide it in this context. As a matter of interest, to which ethnic group could a white South African, who has an Afrikaans surname and who's mother tongue is Afrikaans, belong other than Afrikaner? What other possibilities are there? --Gemsbok1 18:31, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Even assuming that every human being on earth MUST belong to some ethnic group, purely by definition alone (which is still being debated) you CANNOT assume these people to belong to the Afrikaner ethnical group because of the requirement (stated by many articles about the Afrikaner) that they have to associate with the Afrikaner culture, to name only one requirement. One can almost go further and say that you assign the group "Afrikaner" to these people while they might not even be "worthy" of being an Afrikaner because they have no interest in the unique and special culture. Refer to my example about my Flemish neighbour, on Deon Steyn's talk page. In any event, you still have to prove that these people's mother tongues are all Afrikaans, at least. --WickedHorse 18:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- This is certainly a difficult discussion. I think the problem is because in SA, the question of what an Afrikaner is hasn't been resolved. The term Afrikaanses is sometimes used to refer to someone from the Afrikaans community that doesn't necessarily associate him/herself with the Afrikaner due to the political connotation (whether it a passed or present connotation). I propose that we create a category Afrikaanses and that Afrikaner becomes a sub-category of Afrikaanses. People that can obviously be considered Afrikaners (like John Vorster?) can be put into the Afrikaner category. I know I'm making a controversial statement, so please comment if you disagree. The first problem with my proposal is that the term Afrikaanses isn't that commonly used, yet. Another possibility is to speak of Political Afrikaners vs Cultural Afrikaners, but this might also have some problems. Bothar 08:17, 14 November 2006 (UTC). Or even more simple: Afrikaanse South Africans Bothar 08:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not convinced that "all white South Africans with an Afrikaans surname" is the criterion that people are applying for inclusion in this list. Nor are Afrikaners restricted to being South Africans. Take for example, the inclusion of Joan Hambridge - a writer with impeccable Afrikaner credentials - in the list (at the time of writing this comment.) I would object to the inclusion of, say, Nadine Gordimer, whose name probably does not belong here. Not because of her surname, but she doesn't write in Afrikaans, nor do I believe that she considers herself to be an Afrikaner.
If the principle of "self-classification" is used, it is really a question of whether the person considers themselves to be an Afrikaner, and have made this fact publically known through various means. This means that even those whose mother tongue isn't Afrikaans could be included, simply on the basis of the fact that they consider themselves to be Afrikaners. There is no reason for this article to be more controversial than a list of, say, famous Swedes, Basques or Zulus. HeervanMalpertuis 07:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
with====Surname no indication for Afrikanership ==== An Afrikaner could also be somebody with another than Afrikaans surname. A surname only indicates your father's origin and not that of the mother. <br\> Let us look at two examples:
- We are an American family "de Vos" my mother is a "Brown" from England and I move to South Africa. Do I automaticaly become an Afrikaner, just because I am a "de Vos"?
- On the other hand we are a Afrikaans family "Brown" my mother is an Afrikaner "de Vos". My father is a third generation South African and grew up in a ruler village and only spoke Afrikaans his whole life. Does that make me a non-Afrikaner, just because I am a "Brown"?
Everson 10:29, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Precisely - see my other comment above. One immediately faces the problem of defining what is an "Afrikaans" surname, and what isn't. There are French people with German-sounding surnames, English people with French-sounding surnames, Russians with German-sounding surnames, etc. There are prominent Afrikaner families with surnames like Macdonald, Symington, McLaren, Nicol, and Murray. Most surnames typically associated with Afrikaner families are of Dutch, French and German origin, with a dose of Scandinavian, Scottish and English thrown in. Hendrik Verwoerd, for example, was not born in Africa, nor were either of his parents Afrikaners. Nonetheless, he identified with Afrikaners and probably considered himself to be one. This goes back the point I made above about self-classification. HeervanMalpertuis (talk) 06:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Juan Smith of the Springboks rugby team is a precise example of this, surname of Smith is not Afrikaans but he nevertheless is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 11:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I give you Alan Donald, Llewellyn Herbert, Victor Matfield, Bles Bridges - all Afrikaners. In Laingsburg, the most prominent farmers are Afrikaans and their surname is Bourbon-Leftlee. I taught at Stellenbosch University. I am Scottish, with the surname Taylor. One of my students was Afrikaans-speaking and her name was Christine Taylor and her father apparently couldn't speak English very well. In South Africa, a name most times won't tell you whether someone is English or Afrikaans, particularly on the Afrikaans side (I admit that someone called Johannes Erasmus Botha is unlikely to be English, but you could easily have an Afrikaner with very English names). Note that AWB members involved in bombings during the transition included Daryl Stopforth, Craig Barker and Arthur Archer - not exactly "typically" van der Merwe-type surnames!
New category name: Akrikaner people AND misspelled
Who decided to change the name of the category without discussion and misspel it??? Is this vandalism??? Whoever is responsible for it please repair this ASAP. Michel Doortmont (talk) 15:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- Per the CFD nomination here, it was nominated as such. I'm fixing the problem now. --Kbdank71 15:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
The Afrikaners have Danish descent.
The Afrikaners aren't only Dutch and German descent, because the are protestant religion, Denmark is majority catholic country, but the Danish settlers of South Africa were protestant and weren't catholic. - 18.104.22.168 (talk) 15:26, 7 March 2015 (UTC).
- I'm aware that a few Afrikaner clans - van Tonders being a prime example - have ancestors who came from what is today Denmark. The Dutch trading companies occasionally recruited their employees among people from the Duchy of Schleswig (now Schleswig-Holstein) area, which is now part of both Denmark and Germany. But it's an extremely small percentage compared to the main ethnic groups represented - French, German, and Holland Dutch. Afrikaners also have Flemish, Swedish, Luxembourgish, Swiss, Italian, Indian, Khoisan, and some even British/Welsh/Scottish ancestry due to the amount of intermarriage. But it just isn't practical to list all the nationalities here. Most Afrikaner families did not have Danish blood. In fact, out of a list of the 89 most common Afrikaans surnames in South Africa (according to the voters' roll of 1964), only two had Danish progenitors and both of those took Dutch spouses.