Category talk:Museums in the Louisville metropolitan area

This category was nominated for deletion on 6 March 2007. The result of the discussion was rename to Category:Museums in Louisville.

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United States: Kentucky / Louisville

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Should Museums in Indiana be listed in Museums in Kentucky via Museums in Louisville?

The category Category:Museums in Louisville includes Museums outside of the state of Kentucky, but also includes itself in Category:Museums in Kentucky. Since Museums in Indiana are demonstrably not in Kentucky, this results in a factual error. What is a good solution to this?07:30, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll offer two other solutions. I recommend that we postpone the vote until after Christmas, due to many having slight computer access until after Tuesday.--Bedford (talk) 07:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First solution

Create an additional category, [[Category:Museums in Louisville metropolitan area]], and do not include this category in [[Category:Museums in Kentucky]]. However, include museums in Indiana and in the Louisville metropolitan area in this category, along with museums in Louisville, Kentucky. The category [[Category:Museums in Louisville]] will have some overlap with [[Category:Museums in Louisville metropolitan area]], but since this later category will not include [[Category:Museums in Kentucky]], factual errors will be avoided. The overhead of maintaining two similar categories is preferred over factual errors. TableManners ^U·T·C 07:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This proposed solution isn't very good. See Fifth solution instead. TableManners ^U·T·C 17:15, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second solution

Leave as is: any museum in the Louisville Metropolitan area in a "Museum in Louisville"--Bedford (talk) 07:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment But the "Museum in Louisville" includes the "Museum in Kentucky" Category, leading to museums in Indiana being listed as Museums in Kentucky. Or maybe I am missing something. TableManners ^U·T·C 07:38, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment A sub category isn't factual. However I understand your concern. I think it would be fine as long as the Indiana articles had Indiana categories as well. Jahnx (talk) 07:51, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The existing solution was already working. The Louisville metro area has clear boundaries, and anyone coming to the thirteen counties in the MSA are effectively coming to Louisville. I would only advise to make sure that the description in the category makes it clear that the category applies to the metro area. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 20:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It just works much nicer and more cleanly. However, I also like my third solution.--Bedford (talk) 18:35, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Third solution

Due to adjacency, allow museums in New Albany, Clarksville, and Jeffersonville to be "Museums in Louisville", but all others not in Jefferson County, Kentucky are removed from "Museums in Louisville".--Bedford (talk) 07:31, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone who uses the Category to look for museums to go to in Louisville shouldn't have much trouble going to one in these cities, but would probably balk going to one in Salem, or Bardstown for that matter.--Bedford (talk) 08:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fourth solution

Create a sub category of Museums in Louisville to mention Indiana Museums in the Louisville Area. Jahnx (talk)

Possibilities.--Bedford (talk) 08:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fifth solution

Copy all of the museums in the category:Museums in Louisville that are in Kentucky to the category:Museums in Kentucky category, and remove the category:Museums in Kentucky category from the category:Museums in Louisville category.

Support: Speaking as somebody who got dragged into this due to having a single non-Louisville Museum in Kentucky on his watchlist, I would suggest that category:Museums in Louisville & category:Museums in Kentucky are overlapping categories, rather than hierarchically related, and so this is the best representation of that relationship. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 02:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This solution does address the issue of the overlapping of the categories like Hrafn has mentioned. I don't think I'm understanding this solution correctly. Is this proposing moving all Louisville Museums into a completely separate category non-related to Museums in Kentucky? Jahnx (talk) 06:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment No, for each Museum that is in category:Museums in Louisville that is also physically in the state of Kentucky, we will add category:Museums in Kentucky. Then we will remove category:Museums in Kentucky from category:Museums in Louisville, effectively removing museums that are in the Louisville Metro area but outside the state of Kentucky from category:Museums in Kentucky. TableManners ^U·T·C 06:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Well then we will have the problem with Indiana Museums not being listed in with Louisville which is more directly related to Louisville since being in the metropolitan statistical area then they are with just Indiana. I was looking at Category:Museums in Cincinnati as to how it is set up and it appears to have a similar original setup. As of course the city is in Ohio but includes things like Newport Aquarium as in the Cincinnati Museums. Because of the factual differences being ignored and related to the area of relevance, thus being the metropolitan area. I don't think this would be a plausible solution to effectively serve our situation. Jahnx (talk) 07:07, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply No, any muesum that is in the Louisville metro area and in Indiana can retain (or have added) the category:Museums in Louisville. TableManners ^U·T·C 07:11, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification: My understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that museums in Louisville (whether Kentuky or Indiana) would be in category:Museums in Louisville, museums in Kentuky would be in category:Museums in Kentucky, museums that are in both would be in both categories, and category:Museums in Louisville would no longer be a sub-category of category:Museums in Kentucky (i.e. they are two other-wise independent categories that happen to have a some members in common). Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 07:39, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Exactly. Thanks for restating it. TableManners ^U·T·C 16:41, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support With the clarification, I think this would be a good solution. Jahnx (talk) 23:32, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as it causes duplication of categorization. I see nothing wrong with Category:Museums in Louisville being a child of Category:Museums in Kentucky, even if the former includes Indiana museums situated in the Louisville metro area. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 01:59, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sixth solution

Remove all of the category:Museums in Kentucky categories from all of the articles, and from the category:Museums in Louisville category. Add category:Museums in Kentucky to the Template:Museums in Kentucky. This might be the best solution. TableManners ^U·T·C 16:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I just {{SoFixIt}}. This issue can be closed. TableManners ^U·T·C 17:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I suggest allowing time to gather input in this issue like mentioned before, and not making the decisions by yourself. Jahnx (talk) 01:34, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. Feel free to continue to discuss. TableManners ^U·T·C 05:58, 23 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New approach to this cat

I'd like to suggest that we take this up at WP:MUSEUMS dm (talk) 05:46, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]