Talk:A Ram Sam Sam

I'd heard a version with fast food restaurants in the late 80s (at Girl Scout Camp). Did DJ Ötzi give credit to earlier sources? 173.55.96.35 (talk) 20:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Morocco as origin, presumably a myth

There is no evidence anywhere on the net that Aramsamsam has an origin from Morocco. Further, how many people would believe that a Jewish-religious TV show in the 1960-ies/70-ies would use a Moroccan jingle as theme song (see below)? Below it is suggested to be Israeli. Rabbis, etc have been invited to look into the origin of song, however, no verification has been achieved. The conclusion would be that this song like other gibberish songs has inspired myths, ref e.g. Ging Gang Goolie, another scout song

”That was the theme song to a 60's era Chicago-area produced show called "The Magic Door"; it was a kids religious (Jewish) show that featured a leprechaun-ish live-action guy named Tiny Tov and various hand puppets. The show opened with Tov singing what you wrote above, and finish with "Come through the Magic Door with me" etc, inviting you to a tiny door in an acorn. I'm guessing the TV show appropriated the song from some traditional (Yiddish? No clue.) source.” 08-09-2009, http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-288333.html

“The Magic Door (also known as The Magic Door Television Theatre) was a Jewish educational television series aimed at providing kiruv (outreach) to Jewish children in the Chicago, Illinois metropolitan area. The show was produced by the Chicago Board of Rabbis and premiered January 1, 1962. The show ran weekly until January 1, 1982.” “There were two main theme songs for the Magic Door. The first was based on an Israeli Children's song, "A Room Zoom Zoom". Two years old exerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Door — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.230.206.36 (talk) 08:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

A reference for the Morocco claim was added on November 7, 2017‎, citing a slideshare document "Songs & Dances From Around the World & Back Again", which states (p. 4): "This seemingly simple round from Morocco, in Africa, is over 500 years old." One problem is that this document has a copyright date of 2013, whereas the Morocco claim in our article dates back to the very first version, created in 2009. So it is conceivable that the statement in the other article was partly based on Wikipedia – although this is made less likely by the additional statement of its presumed age, which was not mirrored in the Wikipedia article. However, it is not difficult to find the Morocco claim in print in books predating our article, e.g. Dena Adams; Claire Clark (2006). This Is Music!: Fine Musician Friends. Alfred Music Publishing. p. 9. ISBN 978-0-7390-4082-9. That having been said, I find the claim quite implausible; the melody doesn't sound even remotely like any form of traditional Arabic music, which has quarter tones and lacks a regular metre. The melody of "A Ram Sam Sam" is in the major scale, which only became prominent with the rise of tonal harmony in Western music around 1600. Traditional Arabic music has no chords and tonal harmony, but the melody of "A Ram Sam Sam" very strongly suggest a modern Western harmonic base, which becomes apparent when sung as a round. Its simple 4/4 metre is as regular as a metronome.  --Lambiam 01:13, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Complete Translation?

A complete translation to "A Ram Sam Sam" would be appreciated. Each one of the following phrases should be given a meaning:

(1) "A Ram Sam Sam"

(2) "Ram Sam Sam"
     ...without the leading "A," (this occurs
      at the end of the "Guli Guli" lines).

(3) "Guli Guli Guli Guli"

(3) "A Rafiq, A Rafiq"

And lastly, the NAME of the language should be given. Somehow, I very much doubt it's called "Moroccan," but even if it is, it will NOT be so called in its native tongue! The Grand Rascal (talk) 21:21, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

To provide a translation of all or part of the lyric, we would need independent reliable sources discussing the translation of the lyric. In the present case, you are looking at a folk/children's song. The words might be complete nonsense (a local camp favorite, "Doodly Whatnot", comes to mind).

Language, of course, goes hand-in-hand with meaning. Nonsense words might derive from one or more than one language without being strictly Moroccan Arabic, Hebrew, etc. Again: without reliable sources, we have nothing to say. - SummerPhD^v2.0 19:40, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

I think we can safely say it's not English? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:11, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

You write, "The words might be complete nonsense."

O.K., but surely knowing that it is nonsense would be highly useful information...? The Grand Rascal (talk) 07:15, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

a ram sam sam

a ram sam sam 41.90.65.117 (talk) 15:31, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Cookie 2601:541:E00:4830:834:64E7:D0BE:261B (talk) 01:30, 19 November 2023 (UTC)