Talk:Abu Omar al-Shishani

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Muhajireen Brigade[edit]

There are contradictions in the description of the relationship between the Muhajireen Brigade and Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansa in the body of the article. The muddle needs to be sorted out by someone more expert in the field than I am. --P123ct1 (talk) 18:07, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for picking this up. I was hoping you would! I didn’t mention that I had read the Wiki article on Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar as well as this one, and it was this that made the article on Abu Omar al-Shishani confusing to follow.
The article on Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar starts by saying it was formerly known as the “Muhajireen Brigade (Katibat al-Muhajireen)”. It later says the JMA was established under the name of Mujahireen Brigade in 2012, and later says it was reported in 2013 that Kataeb al-Muhajireen joined with two other groups to form the JMA. No mention of the Muharijeen Brigade.
The Shishani article says the Muhajireen Brigade was formed in 2012, and later says it was reported in 2013 that three groups, Kataeb al-Muhajireen and two others, had joined to form Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar. But no mention of the Muhajireen Brigade.
How does the “Kataeb al-Muhajireen” relate to the “Katibat al-Muhajireen” and the Muhajireen Brigade? Using all these different names is very misleading and the descriptions of how the MB became the JMA are confusing to a non-expert to say the least. Perhaps there could be one short paragraph describing clearly how the MB became the JMA, and the same paragraph put into both articles.
I hope that makes sense! If you read both articles, you will probably understand all this better than I have described it. --P123ct1 (talk) 11:02, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

The names Muhajireen Brigade, Katibat al-Muhajireen and Kataeb al-Muhajireen all refer to the same organization. Perhaps the name should be standardized to just one.David O. Johnson (talk) 15:10, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I suspected that. It was the only way to make any sense of the descriptions. --P123ct1 (talk) 18:19, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
I'll standardise to Muhajireen Brigade on both articles, with a reference to the alternat spellings at top of the article. Unfortunately there are about 20 different ways of spelling Muhajireen too. Gazkthul (talk) 22:48, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Reported death[edit]

According to [1] Omar was killed at Mosul Dam. I edited up the article to show the reported death (not confirmed death) and additional biographical info found in a couple sources but another editor promptly reverted everything including that the guy is a Muslim. Here is where it looks like the original report came from[2]Calls him calls him Military Operation Chief and goes into great detail about where he has been coordinting operations.[3] Legacypac (talk) 04:36, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

When it comes to biographies of living people, we should be very careful about declaring people to be dead. Your third source says that there has been no confirmation, and given that Shishani has been reported as being dead on at least 5 separate occasions [1], [2],[3], [4], [5] there is no harm in waiting a while to see how things pan out. I note that no major news sources like BBC, Reuters, AP, Al Jazeera etc. are reporting this. Gazkthul (talk) 05:04, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Wrong image[edit]

The current picture is in the infobox is of Muslim Abu Walid al Shishani, not Abu Omar [6]. I was going planning on updating the image info on the image pages for both, adding the image of Muslim Abu Walid al Shishani to his article, & adding the old Abu Omar image back. However, I don't know if I can update the filenames. I've asked over at the Help desk. [7] David O. Johnson (talk) 07:01, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

The people at the help desk fixed the problem. David O. Johnson (talk) 10:13, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Reported death by Russian media[edit]

The article http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/759545 by ITAR-TASS among others, is citing the death of Abu Omar al-Shishani. Before we list him as dead, I'll quote a paragraph from the article describing al-Shishani: "Al-Shihani, a Jordanian of Chechen descent, moved to the United States for permanent residence about 35 years ago. Up to that moment he had resided in the Jordanian town of Zarqa, which has a large Chechen community. In 2002 he was arrested in Detroit for with false bank cheques."

Just something to consider, regarding the accuracy of these reports... StanMan87 (talk) 02:33, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

I guarantee you these reports are as untrue as the last 4 or 5 times Shishani has been reported dead this year. Gazkthul (talk) 02:50, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
We'll wait until it has been reported at least 9 times, then we will know he's dead for sure. StanMan87 (talk) 12:57, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
the first absurdity is he move to the US years 7 years before he was born, starting from that base, you might as well say he is the red bearded Santa. Legacypac (talk) 08:47, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Tarkhan Batirashvili's early life section. PLEASE BRING CHANGES IN TALKS FIRST[edit]

PLEASE BRING CHANGES IN TALKS FIRST. If you undo the edit again, I will have to report POW violation. Please use adequate sources for citation and do not change the body without discussing it in the talk section first. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.108.214 (talk) 18:31, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Is it he dead or not[edit]

Who knows is this person dead or alive? --Marik-modder (talk) 20:44, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

most recent evidence is US strike in shadadi syria, US officials unable to confirm death bulk of evidence seems to point to him being hit in the strike and possibly seriously wounded but not dead, but who knows — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.244.77.96 (talk) 23:15, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Death[edit]

The Guardian says he's clinically dead: [8]. 83.85.143.215 (talk) 09:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

not dead - IS amaq news agency[edit]

the unofficial IS amaq news agency has rejected claims he is dead

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2016/03/jihadist-propaganda-outlet-denies-islamic-state-military-commander-killed-in-us-airstrike.php http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-shishani-idUSKCN0WG2KN

A news agency that supports Islamic State denied on Tuesday reports that the group's senior operative Abu Omar al-Shishani (the Chechen) had been killed or wounded.

Amaq agency quoted a source saying Shishani, described by Pentagon as Islamic State's minister of war, "had not been exposed to any injury".

Since amaq has a reputation for always being correct, it seems shishani is once again, not actually dead someone should correct the page again — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.244.77.96 (talk) 22:20, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Noone has changed this yet, despite the fact we have no evidence he is dead other than a claim by the US govt (who have been wrong many times) (surely a violation of BLP?) and a denial by the group he works for who would of course know — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.244.77.96 (talk) 11:13, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

again, in the latest speech by IS spokesman adnani, he said 'IF you kill sishani' wikipedia cannot be in the habit of taking the claims of the US government as fact and the final word on the matter shishani is not dead — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 (talk) 16:40, 24 May 2016 (UTC)


Adnani was being ambiguous, as someone pointed out on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/marco_arnaboldi/status/734360234106445825

Shishani has neither appeared on video or audio to deny his death. The Secretary of Defense officially confirmed his death in a press conference.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/03/25/471849394/isis-finance-minister-has-been-killed-u-s-defense-secretary-says

He's dead, Jim.

Marco Arnoboldi's Arabic is not up to scratch. Native Arabic speakers understood Adnani perfectly as saying 'IF you killed' meaning he is not dead. Shishani doesn't need to appear on audio/video, his organisation has refuted his death twice. The US government, as the one making the claim, is the one obliged to provide evidence. The denier isn't obliged to provide anything. The US government has provided no proof, no evidence. Their claim is less valid than the IS denial, because the IS are in a position to actually know the truth of the issue.

You should put away your pro-American biases when you come to edit Wikipedia. Until we see physical evidence, or IS confirms he is dead, he is not dead, and anything the US government says is merely a claim. As such the article should reflect this. I'm not going to edit it again because some moronic Wikipedian will come and revert it, but any honest and objective editor should do it for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.112.144.10 (talk) 18:15, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


Die or not die? http://isis.liveuamap.com/en/2016/29-may-iraq-isis-affiliated-media-outlet-posts-video-claiming — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.44.91.167 (talk) 19:26, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Reported death..again[edit]

So we have a reported death again, and this time ISIS concedes it, but here's the thing:

  1. It's still unverified
  2. No mention is made of when, where or how (with certainty)

So stop adding presumed info. We can say he's presumed dead but don't place the date of the report of his death as the date of death. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 08:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)