Talk:African Stream

Spread of disinformation in wikipedia

I start this discussion after reading all the articles listed in the References section AND the Onyx Impact report that some of those articles cite (in a very sloppy, irresponsible, I think deliberately misleading way). This wikipedia article is far from serious and actually participates in actual spread of disinformation. The sources don't even come close to back the claim that African Stream is runned or even linked to RT, so there should at least be some emphasis on the fact that these are claims that haven't been proven. I would go further though. I actually think they are not only baseless, but actual US propaganda. Cáshate Whitey (talk) 02:54, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• Well, you're going to have to be more specific than that. Which claim is not verified by what? Drmies (talk) 02:56, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
  • The claim that African Stream is a front for Russian disinformation or linked to RT hasn´t been verified by the references listed (or proven by Blinken). Saying tha the media "is described as" seems a bit poor in that light. Cáshate Whitey (talk) 03:37, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
• User:Helioz9, I'll ping you as well. Drmies (talk) 02:59, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

• Hello paid editor. Stanford Internet Observatory identifies African Stream as "Russia’s Latest Covert Influence Pipeline Targeting Africa and the U.S." (AKA disinformation), and NBC News published a story about a nonprofit organization that has identified African Stream as a state actor engaging in disinformation activities. Meaning external analysts do in fact describe it as engaging in disinformation. Helioz9 (talk) 06:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
  • Have you read said articles? There's nothing there. Cáshate Whitey (talk) 13:23, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
    • African Stream: Russia’s Latest Covert Influence Pipeline Targeting Africa and the U.S. is the exact title of Stanford Internet Observatory's article about the outlet. The same article also states It is unclear if these individuals knew of African Stream’s Russian links, which directly identifies the outlet as being influenced by Russia. NBC News states African Stream denied spreading misinformation, meaning someone described the outlet as participating in such activities. Helioz9 (talk) 13:44, 1 October 2024 (UTC)
      • 1. Only circumstantial proof is given of the allegations, such as similarities to other unrelated alt media. 2. "It is unclear if [...] links" doesn't imply such links exist, when in fact no details about the funding are provided in the article. 3. "Someone described the outlet" does not imply that that someone is an authoritative source or common view. 2A0C:5A84:F402:FA00:6571:27C2:E6D2:951A (talk) 06:26, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
      • Only circumstantial proof is given of the allegations, such as similarities to other unrelated alt media. 2. "It is unclear if [...] links" doesn't imply such links exist, when in fact no details about the funding are provided in the article. 3. "Someone described the outlet" does not imply that that someone is an authoritative source or common view. Which is to say: you don't get to say p is true and simply have people believe you only because you're Stanford. You have to back your allegations up. And Stanford's report utterly fails to do so. Cáshate Whitey (talk) 12:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
        • See WP:TRUTH. It doesn't matter what editors personally believe is true, it only matters what reliable sources say. The point is African Stream is depicted by reliable sources in the context of Russian-state backed influence activities. This depiction is given WP:DUE weight in this article, as it seems to be the dominant perspective from reliable sources. Helioz9 (talk) 13:29, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
          • The reliable source has shutdown due to multiple reason one of them being censorship on behalf of the government: Stanford Misinformation Research Center to Close Amid Political and Legal Pressure, Source https://www.allsides.com/story/media-industry-stanford-s-misinformation-research-center-close-amid-political-and-legal 001read (talk) 15:03, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
            • 001read, you are incorrect; please be more careful, when discussing reliable sources, to cite reliable sources.
          • Thing is, a reliable source is only reliable iff (mind you, the double f is not a typo) it deploys rigorous procedures. There´s a difference between "reliable" and "accepted". And even a bigger difference between "reliable" and "manufactured". 167.116.244.203 (talk) 14:08, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
• "African Stream is an essential source of detailed and accurate information as a primary provision for African continental and abroad. It's censorship by the United States and its technological hegemonic power is a bureaucratic overreach. Censoring its content does not change the truth and does not change what can still be exposed about western imperialism. The desperate action to bling the vulnerable by stomping out the small man is a mark of detestable character and clearly attempt is mindless and serves the self-interests of the United States and its allies. The US is desperate to buy time and the clock cannot be turned back. African Stream is ONLY ONE OF THE ONES and those with authentic spiritual knowledge overstand the true meaning of that esteemed a status." 128.92.199.98 (talk) 16:53, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
  • I don't know what you are citing but it's not going to fly here. Drmies (talk) 00:50, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2024

African Stream is an online media outlet that presents itself as a "Pan-African digital media platform covering affairs concerning Africans at home and in the diaspora." While some sources have described it as a potential front for Russian disinformation operations, these accusations have not been substantiated with concrete evidence. African Stream's stated mission is to provide a platform for discussing issues pertinent to Africans, both on the continent and in the diaspora, promoting African narratives and fostering dialogue about the challenges and opportunities facing African communities globally. Labeling media outlets as fronts for foreign disinformation operations without clear evidence can have serious implications for freedom of expression and media plurality in Africa. It is crucial to approach such allegations critically, ensuring that discussions about media integrity do not undermine the essential role of diverse voices in the media landscape. 001read (talk) 13:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Helioz9 (talk) 15:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

I think this part Labeling media outlets as fronts for foreign disinformation operations without clear evidence can have serious implications for freedom of expression and media plurality in Africa. It is crucial to approach such allegations critically, ensuring that discussions about media integrity do not undermine the essential role of diverse voices in the media landscape. doesn't belong in this article (though I absolutely agree with this). That said, the rest of your edit suggestions seem accurate and I think they should make it to the article. Cáshate Whitey (talk) 15:49, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2024 (2)

== Background ==

African Stream has been active on various social media platforms, including TikTok, Reddit, YouTube, Meta, and X (formerly Twitter). In September 2024, both YouTube and Meta banned African Stream, along with the Russian state media outlet RT, following allegations from the United States State Department that African Stream is secretly managed by RT as part of a broader covert Russian government influence operation. This accusation raises concerns about the independence of African media outlets, as it implies that African journalists cannot engage in critical discourse without external control.

In June 2024, a report from Onyx Impact, a nonprofit organization aimed at combating disinformation in the U.S., identified African Stream as one of several foreign actors purportedly attempting to influence U.S. political discourse. African Stream denies these allegations, asserting its identity as an independent outlet that aims to present content from an authentic African perspective.

Researchers at the Stanford Internet Observatory have noted that African Stream exhibits certain characteristics common to past Russian social media influence operations, such as frequently reposting content from other sources and promoting narratives about Africa and the U.S. that align with Russian interests. The involvement of Ahmed Kaballo, a Sudanese-British journalist with ties to the Iranian state-owned media network Press TV, has also raised eyebrows. The Observatory describes African Stream as often promoting "pro-Russian and anti-American/Western narratives with only very weak connections to Africa."

However, it is important to recognize that the claims of foreign manipulation lack direct evidence, such as documented financial ties or internal communications linking African Stream to RT. This circumstantial basis for the allegations risks undermining the credibility and agency of African journalists, perpetuating a narrative that questions their ability to engage in independent journalism. By framing critical perspectives on U.S. foreign policy as inherently influenced by foreign powers, there is a danger of echoing colonial-era sentiments that dismiss African voices and perspectives as lacking authenticity.

In conclusion, while the scrutiny of African Stream highlights legitimate concerns about foreign influence in media, the lack of concrete proof for such allegations should prompt a more nuanced understanding of African media's role and independence. African Stream's commitment to presenting an authentic African perspective should be acknowledged alongside the critiques, fostering a more balanced discourse about the dynamics of journalism in Africa. 001read (talk) 13:54, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Helioz9 (talk) 15:42, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Several problems with recent edits from Arielweil

African Stream is an online media outlet founded in 2022 based in Nairobi, Kenya. African Stream was founded by Ahmed Kaballo, a British-Sudanese journalist who previously worked at Press TV.

This information comes from an interview, which is a primary source. Reliable secondary sources are needed to verify these claims. Interviews are only reliable for verifying that the interviewee has made a claim.

African Stream presents itself as a "Pan-African digital media platform covering affairs concerning Africans at home and in the diaspora", though it is alleged by the United States Department of State to be a front for Russian disinformation operations.

The United States State Department isn't the only entity that describes African Stream in this manner. This description of African Stream as either being backed by Russia or spreading misinformation is repeated by Wired, Stanford Internet Observatory, and Onyx Impact.

American allegations of Russian disinformation have been disputed by African journalists such as David Hundeyin. Hundeyin describes these allegations as reminiscent of Red Scare tactics, and note the lack of evidence presented as part of the State Department allegations and the "pseudo-academic" Stanford article.

David Hundeyin himself is affiliated with African Stream. This sentence misleadingly implies he is independent of African Stream. The source is also once again a primary source, so the sentence shouldn't assert "lack of evidence" and "pseudo-academic" in the voice of Wikipedia.

Overall, the recent edits give far less WP:DUEWEIGHT towards more reliable sources. The recent edits also cite Anadolu Agency, which Wikipedia does not regard as a reliable a source for matters related to international politics (per WP:AAPOLITICS) Helioz9 (talk) 18:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Actually, NBC News claims it is "Nairobi-based" so I guess that can at least be included. Helioz9 (talk) 19:44, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

The United States State Department isn't the only entity that describes African Stream in this manner. This description of African Stream as either being backed by Russia or spreading misinformation is repeated by Wired, Stanford Internet Observatory, and Onyx Impact. I don´t believe this to be true. Onyx Impact merely listed African Stream (henceforth AS) as an actor intending to influence American voters. The step of pinning the allegations of AS being a Russian op to them is in no way justified and that´s just not the way serious research should proceed. 167.116.244.203 (talk) 14:01, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

"backed by Russia or spreading misinformation". Onyx Impact describes African Stream as spreading misinformation. Also Meta and Youtube's ban of African Stream was not an isolated event. The ban was part of a mass ban of multiple different media outlets that Meta and Youtube described as being backed by Russia. Helioz9 (talk) 17:22, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Is that quote from Onyx Impact´s The Black Online

Disinformation Landscape? Did you get access to the complete version? Because I couldn't find the quote in the summary available on their site. In the summary, actually, African Stream is not even mentioned. Cáshate Whitey (talk) 00:41, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

I have removed reference to the Onyx Impact report from the article, @Cáshate Whitey is correct that African Stream is not mentioned at all in the report.

It is mentioned only in the NBC article, which is not quoting the Onyx Impact report.

Will look for some better secondary sources for the other info I was trying to add. Arielweil (talk) 21:53, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

The NBC article links to the Onyx Impact's summary of the report, which is not the complete report.

The bottom of the summary states:

This is a summary analysis. For access to the complete Black Online Disinformation Landscape please email info@onyximpact.org Helioz9 (talk) 21:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

This page should not exist

There's nothing informative about African stream as a publication other than Russia this and Russia that. This page could have been an addendum to news on Russia or the US.

Who are the founders? How did it gain popularity? How long has it been in existence? How come all the sources/opinions are Western even when this is and has been an African-focused publication? What do the Africans themselves think of the publication or they are just objects made to consume whatever?

This is very shoddy work. If you can't be objective/thorough about the information here, don't bother putting it up.

Wikipedia should really do better. Autumninharmattan (talk) 04:35, 16 October 2024 (UTC)