Talk:Ashtanga vinyasa yoga
|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ashtanga vinyasa yoga article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 Students of Krishnamacharya
- 2 Article improvement and name "Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga" or "Ashtanga Yoga"
- 3 Merging plan
- 4 Yoga school template
- 5 Mention the Six Series and Add Asana Lists
- 6 Article title, settled?
- 7 Nasagrai drishti
- 8 the Ujjayi breath
- 9 Krishnamacharya's teachings
- 10 Ashtanga redirect
- 11 Merger with Ashtanga Yoga
- 12 Ashtanga Yoga content moved here
- 13 No Lead?
- 14 Wiki project yoga
- 15 Vinyasa
- 16 Ancient, from the 20th century?
- 17 Schultz as creator of Power Yoga
- 18 Change pagename to Ashtanga Yoga?
- 19 Vinyasa is not derived from Ashtanga
- 20 Principles
Students of Krishnamacharya
I removed Kausthub Desikachar, and Shivaji Mizner as they were not long time students of Krishnamacharya. Perhaps we should add Srivatsa Ramaswami as he is listed at Tirumalai Krishnamacharya, or other long time students such as A. G. Mohan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ross.smith (talk • contribs) 16:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Article improvement and name "Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga" or "Ashtanga Yoga"
First of all, thank you Mottad (whoever you are!) for doing some massive improvements to the text here! I was just in Mysore, South India, and while I was there I was showing a few folks the dearth of quality information about Ashtanga Yoga, and about Sri K. Pattabhi Jois, on Wikipedia. But I'm glad the situation has improved. My first concern from here is that it's not called Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga, it's called Ashtanga Yoga. Sri K. Pattabhi Jois has never called it anything else. Thus we should move the information away from this page and to the Ashtanga Yoga page. I am, however, a Wikimedia beginner, so I wish to take this slowly. I also have plenty of things I would like to add here, under the curatorial guidance of my friend who has published nearly all of the english language articles by Sri K. Patabhi Jois. He has also published much of the biographical information about the life of Sri K. Pattabhi Jois. So there's a well of information from which to be drawn. (I'm still unclear about this Talk page as well... It's function and appearance, and who checks it. I guess I'll go through the Wikipedia tutorial...) - Souljerky
- Hi souljerky. Thanks for the heads-up! I'm also a wikipedia beginner, and this is pretty much the only change I've made. Although I kinda planned to make entries for the bandhas, I ahven't really had time. Um, what else. Oh, it was saved as Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga by someone else, I didn't know why and don't know how to change it. As for the information on Jois, I think it's great that you updated his page with that. How long were you in Mysore? Was it amazing? Mottad
- See discussion and my suggestion at Talk:Raja Yoga where they are discussing merging Ashtanga Yoga & Raja Yoga.
- If you add ~~~~ it will automatically sign and date your entry Paul foord 09:41, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
- Hi all. It's been about 3 years since I was in mysore, but I hope to be getting back soon. Anyway, I think the use of "vinyasa" in ashtanga vinyasa yoga is to differentiate it from the philosophical system of Ashtanga Yoga. And yes, I know that Ashtanaga Yoga as taught by Jois does embrace that system. But the system doesn't necessarily require one to practice ashtanga yoga as taught by jois. One could simply practice mediation and be following the philosophical system of Ashtanga Yoga. For practicality's sake "Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga" is a good term to differentiate between the philosophical root and thiss particular system of following it (as opposed to any others), and one that does, after all, accurately describe the practice. Keep breathing!
- It seems that the wisest thing to do is call it what Pattabhi Jois calls it: Ashtanga Yoga. If there is a need to differentiate it from other types of Ashtanga Yoga, people may always say "Ashtanga Yoga as taught by Pattabhi Jois." The Ashtanga Yoga's taught in India within different traditions vary widely, except for in their general definition of consisting of eight-limbs. EHS111 22:29, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
- I think I gave the page its original name. The problem is that there is already a page called Ashtanga yoga, and this page explains the general idea of the eight limbs, so this name is gone. If you want to name the page Ashtanga Yoga as taught by Pattabhi Jois, go ahead, but I feel that it is a pretty awkward name. In any case, I would suggest to put a redirect of the current name to whatever new name you choose. Wikipedia lives from people who go ahead and do bold edits, so if you have a better name for the page, by all means go for it. Wilke 08:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Looks like the majority feels that there is no difference between Ashtanga and Ashtanga vinyasa yoga. I would like to propose the following merging plan. Introduction and method sections together can go in as a Pattabhi jois style of Ashtanga section in Raja Yoga aka Ashtanga yoga article. Bandas, Drishtis and Mantra can become independent or new sub sections in Raja yoga as these sections dont exist in that article yet. Rest of the stuff can be merged into their respective headers. --Vyzasatya 12:24, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
- The consensus was there was no difference between Ashtanga Yoga and Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga, yes. However that is not the same as saying there is no difference between Raja Yoga and the Ashtanga Yoga of Sri K. Pattabhi Jois. Definitely do not merge. Move this article to Ashtanga Yoga, (this would require the assitance of an Administrator). Paul foord 23:16, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
- The above logic doesn't make sense to me. From the Raja Yoga article, "Raja yoga also is known as Ashtanga Yoga. The term Ashtanga means eight limbs, thus Ashtanga Yoga refers to the eight limbs of [Raja] yoga." Thus, "Ashtanga Yoga" is "Raja Yoga." Now, if there is "no difference" between "Ashtanga Yoga" and "Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga," this article should be merged into Raja Yoga. If Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga is not the same as Raja Yoga, then it's not the same as Ashtanga Yoga either. In that case, Ashtanga Yoga should remain a disambig page and Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga should stay put. — RDF talk 23:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
- I am of the same opinion as RDF in this case. May be we should call for vote. --Vyzasatya 05:37, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
- In the methods section it says The main difference of this style of Yoga to other styles is the focus on vinyasa, which is the union of movement and breath. Hence the article itself declares that it is a specialised form of Ashtanga Yoga. Hence this article should remain Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga.--Vyzasatya 05:44, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Yoga school template
Very nice template Paul, I think It should be adopted in all the Yoga schools pages. --Vyzasatya 05:37, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Mention the Six Series and Add Asana Lists
There should be some mention that Ashtanga (vinyasa) yoga has six series. I've got some information about this on my own site that I've lovingly collected and I wouldn't be opposed to reproducing it here. This is the page I'm talking about: Ashtanga Yoga Series. There's also a list of asanas in each series which could be added too, I'm sure you could find them by browsing the link provided. I'm just not sure if they should be on a new page or appended to the Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga page. Opinions welcome. Coffeeaddict 08:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Article title, settled?
Are we all more or less happy about the name of this article? I'd have thought this school was more commonly known as Ashtanga Yoga (a scrappy-looking disambig page at present), arguing for a move to that title, but admittedly that might have some POV implications (the name being basically a claim on the part of the founder that his style is the Raja Yoga of Patanjali (others merely manifestations thereof, standard one-upmanship in this area, not to say many others). Alternatively, that about a parenthetical disamig, like Ashtanga Yoga (Pattabhi Jois) or something to that effect. Alai 04:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
- Keep current The advantage of the current title is it is descriptive, I would prefer not to reference Jois in the title. Paul foord 09:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- It is more well-known under just "Ashtanga Yoga", at least in Austria; I was very surprised there was more than one kind of Yoga with this name when I first looked for it on Wikipedia... —Nightstallion (?) 19:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Hope this is the right place to ask this. The Nasagrai drishti is listed as "at a point six inches from the tip of the nose". In David Swenson's 'Ashtanga Yoga' book he says it's simply "the tip of the nose"
the Ujjayi breath
P.Jois recommends breathing fully and deeply with the mouth closed. He does not specifically refer to Ujjayi Breathing.  However, Manju Jois, P.Jois' son does. Manju Jois also refers to breathing called "‘dirgha rechaka puraka’, meaning it is long, deep,slow exhales and inhales. It should be dirgha...long, and like music. The sound is very important. You have to do the ujjayi pranayama."  I In late 2011, Sharath Jois, P.Jois' grandson declared his feelings on the issue, stating that ujjayi breathing was not done in the asana practice, but also stated that the breathing should be deep breathing with sound. He later referred to the breathing as "free breathing"
In 2014 published on YouTube, Manju Jois dodges the question "what is the difference between ujjayi breathing and free breathing by saying that the breathing in ashtanga should be long and deep with the sound like the ocean, but if you don't make sound, that is okay too. No distinction between the two terms is made  — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRIDGET MITTENS (talk • contribs) 09:35, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I have heard some contention as to whether the breath used in Ashtanga Yoga should appropriately be called "Ujjayi Breath". It was relayed to us in a class in NH, USA (and i don't know that this was actually said) that Nancy Gilgoff feels Ujjayi, when properly done is done in a seated practice involving the 3 locks, and not done while flowing through Vinyasa. Rather that the breath in Ashtanga practice should be called- "the ocean-sounding breath" or a breath "imitating the rasp or drag heard in Ujjayi breathing". I would love someone with a little more involvement with the Mysore community to comment on this. I was taught at Sivananda Yoga Farm (Grass Valley, CA USA) that Ujjayi breath was a breath that was done with a very certain seat, a certain emphasis on engaging all three locks and done in a slow and deliberate manner with a certain count - but i never wanted to question the difference between the views of these two systems - it seemed it would reveal itself in time, and now I am excited to hear your thoughts on it!
- I've heard other people trying to argue that the ujayi pranayam used during asana practice is not the same as ujayi pranayam used as strait pranayam and they therefore should be called something different. The fact remains that the breathing style used during ashtanga vinyasa yoga is called ujayi breath or ujayi pranayam by certified instructors, including Guruji himself. Even though it is technically different from ujayi used in strait pranayam practice, this is simply the case of two different (or rather, two similar) things having the same name. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 21:38, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
- The latest, from Sharath is that the breathing in ashtanga is not ujjayi. Sharath refers to it as 'deep breathing with sound' and says it is wrong to call the breathing we do in ashtanga ujjayi - ujjayi is pranayama. There is a good explanation of how this whole misunderstanding and correction occurred here: Yogarose.net220.127.116.11 AlteredTowers (talk) 14:01, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
Regarding Krishnamacharya's teachings, based on my discussions with other direct students of his (Mark Whitwell and Srivatsa Ramaswami) and review of written material by his son TKV Desikachar, I must dispute the statement that "Today, Ashtanga remains the most faithful to his original teachings to teenage boys." I don't believe this statement is verifiable nor does it reflect NPOV, so I recommend deletion (or significant revision) of it. SeekingToKnow 06:31, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
The last section of the article (referring to the origins of Ashtanga Yoga and discussing various options of this, especially one theory that it was actually K.P. Jois, not T. Krishnamacharya, who designed the practice) does not seem to be very well supported by evidence. Although the theory could be true, I find it misleading to make it part of a Wikipedia article which should try to stick to the facts as far as possible, not so much discuss theories. This is not meant as an insult. Or perhaps a hint that the origins are somehow unclear but that it is the personal practice that matters instead would make sense? --18.104.22.168 12:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Merger with Ashtanga Yoga
Ashtanga Yoga content moved here
Ashtanga Yoga is a system of yoga with origins that can be traced back to the early 1900s. It is said to have been first recorded by the sage Vamana Rishi in the text Yoga Korunta. The text went through the hands of various gurus before being found in Calcutta library by Sri Tirumalai Krishnamacharya, who took extensive notes and passed these on to his student Sri Pattabhi Jois. However, some have cast doubt on the existence of this manuscript. Jois teaches the system at his Yoga Research Institute in Mysore, India and the system is now practiced throughout the world.
Ashtanga Yoga, which means “eight-limbed yoga”, aims to cleanse both mind and body. This can be done through the eight spiritual practices: yama or moral codes, niyama or self purification and study, asana or posture, pranayama or breath control, pratyahara or sense control, dharana or concentration, dhyana or meditation, and samadhi or contemplation.
It is believed that the body needs to be freed of impurities first before the mind can be controlled. The first four practices are for that purpose, while the latter are for mental and spiritual cleansing. Asana in particular is grouped into series. The body is first purified through the Primary Series, and then the cleansing of the nervous system is worked on in the Intermediate Series. Yoga postures are perfected in the Advanced Series, where there are different levels that require increasing flexibility.
The eight principles are further practiced through vinyasa and tristhana. Vinyasa literally means “breath-synchronized movement”, and here the yogi inhales or exhales—rechaka and puraka—as he does asanas. This combination of breathing and movement detoxifies the body through better blood circulation. The impurities in the body are then released through sweat.
Tristhana, on the other hand, refers to the three subjects of focus during yoga practice: posture, breathing system, and looking place. These are essential for cleaning the body and clearing the mind. Posture is improved through asanas; breathing is done through balanced inhales and exhales. Meanwhile, there are nine places or dristhis that the yogi looks at while doing the yoga postures. These are the nose, between the eyebrows, navel, thumb, hands, feet, up, right side, and left side. Gazing at these will help refine the mind.
Ashtanga yoga also aims to get rid of the six poisons that cover the light in the spiritual heart. This light is said to represent God. The six poisons are kama or desire, kridha or anger, moha or delusion, lobha or greed, matsarya or envy, and mada or sloth. Once these are vanquished over time through the diligent practice of Ashtanga yoga, the light will be uncovered and the yogi’s Universal Self will be revealed.
Other schools teachers and organisations of yoga that rely on the 8-fold path elucidated by Patanjali in Sutra 2.28 refer to themselves as practitioners of Ashtanga Yoga as well. The eight-fold path is also central to the work of still other teachers of yoga.
Wiki project yoga
Vinyasa definition is incorrect. Vinyasa is NOT the connecting sequence that occurs between each pose. Vinyasa is concious movement synchronised with the breath. There is always confusion over this but Guruji was always very adamant about this point. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 09:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)MC
Vinyasa: In the words of P.Jois "Vinyasa means "breathing system." Without vinyasa, don't do asana. When vinyasa is perfect, the mind is under control."
Vinyasa: In the word of Sharath means breathing with movement. For each movement, there is one breath. All asanas are assigned a certain number of vinyasas.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRIDGET MITTENS (talk • contribs) 09:39, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Ancient, from the 20th century?
The article summary states that "Ashtanga Yoga is an ancient system of yoga", then later says its earliest known origins are from the 20th century. That is hardly 'ancient'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:11, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
- A lot of new information has come to light with Mark Singleton's research and book, Yoga Body. It may be that some of the above statements were added to this article by one editor, and then contradictory information was added by another editor. Our job (yours and mine) is to fix this stuff when we catch it and support it referentially. When viewpoints conflict, we can word thins, "Some sources claim that [first claim and citation] while others claim that [second claim and citation]." Morganfitzp (talk) 21:58, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Schultz as creator of Power Yoga
This article references Schultz as the creator of power yoga. I dispute this, and I believe some of the references are misleading. There is a more complete discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Larry_SchultzDavid (talk) 05:21, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
why is this even in this page? This page is about Ashtanga Yoga. Not a promotion for teachers that once learned from Jois and now looking to promote themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 16:36, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
I agree with the above. The page is about ashtanga yoga not all other styles of yoga that have nothing to do with ashtanga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRIDGET MITTENS (talk • contribs) 09:41, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Change pagename to Ashtanga Yoga?
A user recently went through the articles text and removed the word "Vinyasa" from "Ashtanga Vinyasa Yoga." All of the article's references support this. Currently Ashtanga Yoga is a disambiguation page with one Wikilink leading here and another to Rāja yoga. While Rāja yoga's mention is important, I think that could be noted at the top of this article, or a separate article could be created for "Ashtanga" alone, sans yoga. Please discuss. Morganfitzp (talk) 03:34, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Vinyasa is not derived from Ashtanga
Perhaps the person who thinks this should familarize themself with Krishmacharya's Vinyasa Krama system. Also, to mention that power yoga is derived from Ashtanga yoga seems redundent and incomplete, as it is discussed at a later point in the entry. Does this really need to be here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRIDGET MITTENS (talk • contribs) 09:59, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Anyone and everyone who practices knows the principles of Ashtanga are breath, bandhas, drishti Can we not agree to have these correctly in the same grouping. Additionally there is mountains of literature pertaining to the connection between breath and bandhas. One cannot be with out the other.
Lastly I don't think it is appropriate to attempt to define bandhas as being specific to postures or as being muscular contractions. There is too much evidence that they are energetic concepts,(eg. Mula Bandha the master key) not muscular contractions, and the consensus is from Jois and his grandson that they are to be engaged at all times,not just during asana. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BRIDGET MITTENS (talk • contribs) 10:07, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
- pg 108, Yoga Mala
- Manju Mini Interview 2014 on youtube
- Alan Little, "indian arts - yoga teaching", Alan Little's weblog, 22 February 2004
- Yoga Mala