Talk:Battle of Boulogne

CE

Found some citations and ce'd the text, added a few details, more to come before a re-assessment.Keith-264 (talk) 20:15, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Re good article

@Tomh903: Greetings, I'm not interested in Good article status but if it's what you want I'll help as much as I can, since I've written most of the article. PS I appreciate your recent additions. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 20:00, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks very much, yes please do get involved as much as as you can whenever the review gets underway. I said I'd throw the article forward for a good article review because it already has a solid foundation provided by you and I've also recently acquired a few good sources on the battle so I don't imagine it will require drastic work to pass.Tomh903 (talk) 21:22, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

If it pleases, I have more info on the air. Dapi89 (talk) 14:14, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Battle of Boulogne/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 22:47, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

I will review this one, comments to follow in next few days. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 22:47, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Began a CE of recent additions to the text.Keith-264 (talk) 19:02, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Completed ce, homogenised prose, trimmed verbiage, auto-ed, cite review, dupe wl check, dups check BritEng check. Keith-264 (talk) 09:45, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for the length of time I have taken to come back to this. Some comments:

Lead

• through Dunkirk: suggest "from Dunkirk"  Done
• link XIX Corps  Done
• by when the Allied troops at Boulogne : suggest "by which time the Allied..." no, comma added
• The second para mentions the Irish Guards and Welsh Guards. Perhaps establish precedence for them; e.g. "The Guards, including a battalion each of the Welsh and Irish Guards,..." or alternatively rephrase this portion to avoid mentioning specific fronts. Also the article for 20th Guards Brigade only has the Welsh Guards as part of the OOB, not the Irish (but could be a reflection on the lack of quality of that article).  Done
• before cutting off a party of the Irish: suggest "before a part of the Irish was cut off..." Done
• RAF fighters: suggest linking fighters Done
• around the Citadel above the lower town: lack of antecedence for the Citadel, maybe just refer to the French defenders around the old part of the town Done
• which led to reproaches: from who? Done

Background

• Liane river: caps on river? And again at the end of second para of Battle of France section. Done
• When leave from the BEF began in December...: I'm not sure what you are saying here? Done
  • Link added to make it more clear the sentence is referring to Boulogne coming into use to transport British troops home for annual leave.

More to come. Zawed (talk) 05:41, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

• Somme river valley: caps on River and also move the link to the Somme River to this mention? Done
• General Douglas Brownrigg: more precisely define his rank Done
• Commandant Dutfoy de Mont de Benque: no links for rank or person? Done
• Consider linking the anti-aircraft regiments, even if they are redlinks. It looks like there are several such articles so they be created in the future even if they don't exist at the moment. Done
• the French had two 75 mm field guns, two 25 mm anti-tank guns: link field guns and anti-tank guns? (field guns actually linked much later in the article, in the battle section so move it to the first mention) Done
• German XIX Corps, (General Heinz Guderian), reached: suggest "German XIX Corps, commanded by General Heinz Guderian,..." (also determine Guderian's precise rank at this time) Done
• Link General Jean Pelissier de Féligonde, Hesdin, Admiral Leclerc Done
• ordered You are to die at your posts one by one rather than give in: suggest "issued an order: "You are to die at your posts one by one rather than give in..." Done

Prelude

• 20th Guards Brigade (Brigadier William Fox-Pitt),: suggest "20th Guards Brigade, under the command of Brigadier William Fox-Pitt,". Similar wording for the 21st Infantry Division later on. Done
• in the town awaiting evacuation, a mixture of recalled reservists and part-trained troops working as labourers.: suggest the second part of this sentence be moved to immediately follow the mention of the AMPC. At the moment it seems that these reservists/part-trained troops are in addition to the 1,500 of the AMPC which I don't think is your intention. Done
• In the German offensive preparations, several commanders are mentioned. I suggest only identifying those important to the battle, probably Veiel, maybe Kirchner. It also needs to be clarified that their divisions are part of XIX Corps. Done

Battle

• that the French had fallen back to Boulogne by German tanks: this makes it sound as they the French were being transported back by German tanks. Suggest "that the French had been forced back to Boulogne by German tanks" Done
• which was of great help to the army: A little unclear which army. If there was a lot of rubble that could have helped the defenders. I don't think that is what you meant though so suggest "which was of great help to the attacking forces" Done
• No antecedence for Frondeur or Orage  Done I think ;O)
  • Apologies, I'm not sure what's meant by antecedence? As in the ships need a prefix similar to HMS for British ships?

• No, neither ship had been mentioned until this point so it was a little "where did these ships come from?". But I see context has been provided for these now. I'm going to have another look over the article to make sure everything has been addressed but it is looking good so far. Zawed (talk) 07:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

• The last sentence of the last para of the 23 May section is very long. Suggest breaking it up. Done
• Lanquetot was based in the Haute Ville (Old Town, the Citadel),: a translation has already been provided earlier in the article for Haute Ville so the bracketed text is not required. Done
• When Fox-Pitt received ordered to evacuate the orders excluded the French: some clarity issues here, suggest "When Fox-Pitt received orders to evacuate, these excluded the French" Done
• link or translation for "entrepôt;"? Done
• General Ewald von Kleist: precise rank for Kleist? Done
• meant that the Aa Canal: no antecedence for the Aa Canal  Done
  • Again, apologies, could you explain more the meaning of antecedence for the canal?  Done

• I meant that it hasn't been previously mentioned. The context has changed now so all good. Zawed (talk) 09:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Bibliography

• A little inconsistency on presentation of location information. One mentions UK, rest don't. The US refs, one omits the state. Done
• British Merchant Vessels Lost or Damaged by Enemy Action... doesn't appear to be used. Done

Other stuff

• No dupe links that need attention
• No disambig links
• Checklinks tool OK
• Image tags look OK

That's my review complete. Will check back in a few days if I don't get pinged earlier. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 08:35, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

@Zawed: I think that's most of the recommendations, except for the antecedence which need further explanation, addressed by myself and Keith-264 if you want to take another look at it. Tomh903 (talk) 12:53, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

@Everyone, I like the work that's been done and will try to read it through today but I'm hampered by a most unwelcome return of pain from a trapped nerve in my neck. What a way to spend a weekend! ;O) Regards Keith-264 (talk) 13:35, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Minor point: Should we consider Richthofen in the list of commanders? Dapi89 (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

This is looking good, I added Richthofen as a commander. Passing as GA now. Zawed (talk) 09:46, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 16:39, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

The British destroyer HMS Venomous which fought German tanks during the Battle of Boulogne.

• ... that during the Battle of Boulogne on 23 May 1940, a shell from the British ship HMS Venomous made a German tank turn "over and over, like a child doing a cart-wheel"? Source: Hawkins, I. (2003). Destroyer: An Anthology of First-Hand Accounts of the War at Sea 1939–1945.
  • ALT1:... that during the Battle of Boulogne, a shell from a British ship made a German tank turn "over and over, like a child doing a cart-wheel"? Source: Hawkins, I. (2003). Destroyer: An Anthology of First-Hand Accounts of the War at Sea 1939–1945.

Improved to Good Article status by Tomh903 (talk) and Keith-264 (talk). Nominated by Tomh903 (talk) at 10:47, 8 May 2020 (UTC).

• Hi Tomh903, review follows: article promoted to GA on 8 May; article is well written and cited inline throughout; main sources are all offline, AGF on no copyright violation from these; hook is interesting and mentioned in the article, it could perhaps be rephrased to say that "a shell from the British ship" to make it clear what caused the tank to overturn, but I will leave to the promoter to decide; AGF on hook sourcing which is offline; image is appropriate, though the caption could do with trimming, if used; image is appropriately licensed; user is exempt from QPQ requirement as they have no previous DYK nominations - Dumelow (talk) 11:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@Dumelow: Agreed, have added "a shell from the British ship". Also agreed on trimming caption, perhaps simply "HMS Venomous which fought German tanks during the Battle of Boulogne" is appropriate?.

Hi Tomh903, I think it could even be reduced to just "HMS Venomous", but we can leave the decision to whoever arranges the hooks. Just a thought, we could add "on 23 May 1940" to the hooks and request this appear on the main page on the anniversary? - Dumelow (talk) 15:27, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes that sounds good, I'll put in "on 23 May 1940".Tomh903 (talk) 16:54, 8 May 2020 (UTC)