Talk:Biotin

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spam?[edit]

I'm not sure if this is a dead link or just spam, can anyone figure it out? The title of the supposed article looks fishy to me, like synthetic text. Anyway, right now the link just goes to an advertisement page. Helikophis (talk) 04:11, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Without heading[edit]

These comments were formerly at the top of the talk page, without heading. Icek 11:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


Where does Biotin occur naturally, if anywhere? The article doesn't make it clear Coyote-37 14:23, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree, and furthermore I think this article as a whole is too technical. Joe average seeking information on Biotin will be befuddled.
The Italian article mentions milk (human and bovine), egg yolk and seafood, and says that in vegetables the bioavailability is low. I don't agree that the article is too technical. Icek 16:23, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

By today, Jan 29 2017 it has still not be mentioned where biotin occurs, or is being produced, naturally.

Note to the moderators: This last paragraph required editing. It was written in ignorance and was offensive to those of us who not only use alternative therapies and its components, such as apricot kernels, but also deal with a great many people who have indeed cured themselves of cancer and various other diseases as a result of their use. It would seem the writer of this overview chooses not to thoroughly research the subjects of his drivel before imposing them upon unsuspecting knowledge seekers. Highly irresponsible. This person should have his privileges revoked and all writings should be thoroughly reviewed for similar content. Please remove this message once read. Many thanks.

This is good!!

Copyright violation?[edit]

Some of this article seems to have been "adopted" from http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/bio_0035.shtml and I don't have the time to find the copyright template. MeekMark 02:32, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems it has been removed/rewritten in the meantime, so there should be no copyright problem now. Icek 11:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Poor Wording[edit]

"Biotin deficiency is a rare nutritional disorder caused by a deficiency of biotin" What is this sentence trying to say? Maybe this can be rewritten if the author's original meaning is known. nChanq 21:52, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

"Vitamin H may also refer to haloperidol"- this is confusing, inaccurate and may be removed. If needed, origin of "H" in vitamin H may please be mentioned. We need more modern information and state clearly that it is an enzyme cofactor.Ck.mitra 07:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

What is biotin supplement made of?[edit]

I have been unable to find info on the manufacture of biotin for human supplementation. In lay terms, how is biotin produced, from what materials? Thanks. 74.38.116.21 19:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)V.B.

I have the same question as the guy above, and also, can biotin be synthetically manufactured for use in vitamins, supplements, etc.? I also agree with nChang, that sentence makes no sense. 141.156.142.13 22:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC) AnimeKing99

While I don't know how it is manufactured commercially, it certainly can be manufactured. One path starts with cysteine, which is also used by organisms as a building block for biotin. See here for (unfortuately only the first page of) an article about that synthesis. And you could try searching for biotin "total synthesis" in Google Scholar (which returns only scholarly articles, but often without free fulltext access) or in a normal search engine. Icek 16:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Links for Biotin Info[edit]

Here's two great websites that have lots of info on biotin that may not be mentioned here: [1] and [2], the first link is for really smart people, it's really complicated, but the second link is a lot easier to understand, and lists a lot of the places where biotin occurs naturally. Hope that helps!! ;) 141.156.142.13 22:24, 26 November 2006 (UTC) AnimeKing99

Excessive consumption of raw egg-whites[edit]

deficiency can be caused by excessive consumption of raw egg-whites over a long period (months to years)

What constitutes "excessive consumption"? 2 eggs per day? 5? Icek 17:04, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe that two raw egg whites per day can, in fact, be considered excessive consumption for many people. In general, the more raw egg whites you eat, the faster the symptoms appear. A dozen raw egg whites (which provides about 200 Calories or 50 g protein) each day might produce symptoms in as little as two weeks. Most docs prefer that their patients avoid eating raw egg whites entirely. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... to bind 0.3 mg biotin you should need the avidin from 11 eggs (see my comment at Talk:Avidin#Digestability). 2 egg whites should bind about 0.05 to 0.06 mg - is this already harmful? Most docs probably prefer a wide safety margin. Icek (talk) 17:22, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Excess symptoms[edit]

The symptoms described for excess of biotin are not documented anywhere. Alopecia is a sign of biotin deficiency, not excess. At least google it.

See the Dietary Reference Intake section - about no setting of a safe upper limit because no clear evidence for adverse effects from high doses.David notMD (talk) 04:28, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

RDA[edit]

RDA, ADI or the like. Since it is produced by intestinal bacteria surely those on antibiotics may require supplementation? --41.241.192.53 (talk) 10:31, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Only vitamin K deficiency turns up in the science literature as a vitamin deficiency caused by antibiotics killing intestinal bacteria in the large intestine. As assumption could be made that for other vitamins synthesized and secreted by bacteria in the large intestine, the contribution is minor compared to what is consumed in food and absorbed in the small intestine.David notMD (talk) 11:41, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

Biotin[edit]

Thank You so much for having this website. I had a project for scholl and this helped me so much. THANKS;] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.167.28.250 (talk) 17:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I have used Biotin for my hair, I don't really have a hairloss problem. I only use it because I heard it makes your hair grow longer. Wel my hair and nails grow faster and I have alot of new hair so it definately works!

Binding coefficient references[edit]

The article contains the three "references" (Bonjour, 1977; Green 1975; and Roth, 1985) for the binding constant of biotin to streptavidin and avidin. The first two incomplete references appear to refer to

  • Bonjour JP. (1977). "Biotin in man's nutrition and therapy -- a review". Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 47 (2): 107–18. PMID 142069. 
  • Green NM. (1975). "Avidin". Adv Protein Chem. 29: 85–133. PMID 237414. 

and this paper might be helpful. (but I don't have subscriptions to any of them)

  • Bayer EA, Ben-Hur H, Wilchek M. (1986). "A sensitive enzyme assay for biotin, avidin, and streptavidin". Anal Biochem. 154 (1): 367–70. doi:10.1016/0003-2697(86)90538-5. PMID 3706735. 

Whosasking (talk) 13:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

redundant[edit]

LKS (fatty liver and kidney syndrome) and hepatic steatosis also can occur.

hepatic steatosis = fatty liver the sentence is redundant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AriaNo11 (talkcontribs) 21:34, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Controversial addition[edit]

I removed the following from the article. It included no sources and an anonymous user has been simply rewording the paragraph (possible COI/POV):

Besides its roles as a carboxylase prosthetic group, biotin also has effect on DNA, gene impression as well as cell development and immunity. Strong correlation between biotin status and gene expression is founded by different research groups. The major attention is focused on biotinylation of histone. Histones are protein that binds to DNA. It plays important role in packaging DNA to its compact structure to form nucleosome which is considered as an integral structural components of chromosomes. Releasing of this compact is tightly associated with DNA replication and transcription. Modification of histones through the attachment has been shown to affect replication and transcription of DNA.

--Odie5533 (talk) 03:47, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Verifiability of part of the deficiency section + cleanup[edit]

I have now removed the blank reference tags from this section, so that unverified information in this article does not falsely appear to be verified. In addition, the last part of the section needs a serious cleanup by someone who both knows English well, and is able to find a source for the claims in question. (It looks to me to be poorly translated from a possibly dubious source in a different language.) Any ideas for improvement? Mirithing (talk) 22:54, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Metabolism[edit]

The article indicates that "Biotin is necessary for cell growth, the production of fatty acids, and the metabolism of fats and amino acids". However, metabolism is a term that can mean either anabolism or catabolism. Is biotin necessary for both? This may be worth clarifying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.232.116.47 (talk) 03:38, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

"The best natural sources of biotin in human nutrition are [...]. These sources of biotin include [...]." seems a bit redundant and confusing. Also, eggs are listed, but later it's noted that raw egg whites can cause deficiency. Is it cooked eggs, or egg yolks only (raw/cooked?), that are a good source of biotin? Chi11ken (talk) 00:07, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Under Bioavailability the following seems to conflict with the explanation in the introduction which states that humans get all their biotin from bacteria that dwell in the gut......Please clarify. Also, the logic below is rather nonsensical...sounds like confusion over the definition of "bioavailability". "A possible explanation for the wide variability in biotin bioavailability is that it is due to ability of an organism to break various biotin-protein bonds from food. Whether an organism has an enzyme with the ability to break that bond will determine the bioavailability of biotin from the foodstuff.[12] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.77.150.101 (talk) 21:45, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, raw eggs contain avidin an antinutrient which binds to biotin in the body. Cooking at over 185F degrees and holding that temperature throughout for at least 4 minutes significantly deactivates these substances.66.110.251.145 (talk) 04:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

No Sources[edit]

However, a number of metabolic disorders in which an individual's metabolism of biotin is abnormal exist; in these disorders, megadoses of biotin, far higher than the average daily intake from food, in general, can mitigate symptoms and correct the underlying metabolic disturbance.

Statement has no sources. 70.61.199.67 (talk) 17:25, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I removed the part about megadoses, and requested citation for the bit about metabolic disorders. ChemNerd (talk) 17:52, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
This is only common sense and you need no "sources" to know that if the normal amount doesn't work because of a biotinadase deficiency, then more might help. I guess if I find sources for what even the most stupid person already knows on this, I will post them here. We don't need establishment group think here to state the obvious. Now, I am losing hair, maybe I can take about 5-7 "high potency" tabs a day and see what happens, not that the policies here will let me use that ("original research" - convenient cop-out for removing what personally offends). Oh, and if this is not true, then why do we list treatment doses for hair and nails that are 10-30 times the strongest OTC tablets? Why not take the RDA level? So why contradict ourselves? I reverted that once to more reasonable doses and someone changed it back. Oh, and if I find the correct values as sourced by several good sources, I will post it here, though it seems everyone here cannot think for themselves without sources. 66.110.251.145 (talk) 03:57, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Allergy Information[edit]

Could someone please add allergy information? I bought biotin supplements and only took them twice then stopped. Each day I took them, within a couple hours I started feeling horrible, dizzy, nauseous, short of breath. I realized the only thing I did differently on those days was take biotin, so I came here looking for allergy info, and found none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.112.62.23 (talk) 19:35, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Possible dosage misinformation[edit]

It seems both the therapeutic and the supplemental dosages are off by 10. I read the source given and I do not trust it as reliable. On the website, it says the RDA is 30 mcg, but I have a bottle in front of me that has 1000 mcg and is clearly labeled as 3-1/3 times the RDA. So convert that to 10/3 the RDA and divide 1000 by 10 and then multiply by 3, you get 300 mcg. 100% is 300 mcg and 333% is 1000 mcg (1 mg). Now, you say that the supplemental dosage and the therapeutic dosage is different by a magnitude, but what your source lists is 2 orders of magnitude. It seems they are an unreliable source and should be removed. I guess I should look for other sources and see what the consensus is between them. I believe the dosages listed here are very inaccurate and possibly dangerous (more on the bottom end than the high end, albeit). If I find other numbers on multiple sites I find credible, I will post them here. 66.110.251.145 (talk) 03:41, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Adequate Intake (AI; there is no RDA) is correct at 30 mcg. Last revised in 1998. In the U.S., product labels use % Daily Value. These DVs have not been updated since 1968, so represent an outdated concept of how much is needed. The 100% DV for biotin is 300 mcg. A product contain 1000 mcg will be 333% DV, but 3333% of what is considered adequate to meet adult needs. Other vitamins and minerals do not align between RDA and 100% DV, but none are so far apart as biotin.David notMD (talk) 23:41, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Biotin virtually never at 100% in multi-vite supplements[edit]

This probably can't be worked into the article, but I've always found it odd that "balanced" or "complete" multivitamin supplements never contain 100% the RDA for biotin, usually only about 15%. I wonder why. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.242.72.225 (talk) 20:49, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

What labels show is a % Daily Value. The problem is that DVs were based on old (1968) calculations that the biotin requirement was 300 mcg/day. The 1998 update cut this by 90%, meaning that an Adequate Intake (sufficient for all adults) is only 30 mcg. So as you reported, biotin in multi-vit/min is very often at 30 mcg and hence "only" 10% DV, whereas in reality is providing 100% of the AL. In May 2016 the Daily Value was change to 30 mcg. Food and supplement companies have until July 2018 to comply. Until then, there will be products in stores using the old or new DVs.David notMD (talk) 11:35, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

History of century old British breakfast of raw or semi cooked eggs[edit]

Somewhere I have got a reference that there is a history about a century back in the British isles that their breakfast used to consist of raw or semi cooked eggs which on being taken regularly would subsequently lead to the people passing out (of hypoglycemia) at around 11am at work. I am searching for the validity of the statement. Meanwhile, this article may be of some relevance. Requesting insights if anybody knows anything about this. DiptanshuTalk 15:50, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Dietary Reference Intake[edit]

I am creating the same format for DRIs for all vitamins. That is a U.S.- based system that identifies Estimated Average Requirements (EARs), Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs), Adequate Intakes (AIs) if there is not enough information to establish EARs and RDAs, and Tolerable Upper Intake Levels (ULs) if there is enough information to set a UL. Another major regulatory agency that has established ULs is the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA). ULs for both are provided, as they often differ. If there is a UL, then rationale is covered in a Toxicity section. In addition to DRIs, the U.S. also established Daily Values, using these on food and dietary supplement labels as % DV. DVs were based on 1968 RDAs, but as of May 2016 have been updated to reflect the newer DRIs. What I have written can be improved. It lacks EFSA or other major country RDAs. It lacks an estimate of what percentages of people are deficient - although that is often covered in a separate section on deficiency and consequences of deficiency. I am creating this Subject in all of the Talk pages of the vitamin entries I have edited. Comments and improvements are welcome.David notMD (talk) 11:31, 21 May 2016 (UTC)