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Talk:Carnival (¥$ song)

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Good articleCarnival (¥$ song) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 29, 2024Good article nomineeListed

Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 01:09, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Created by Soulbust (talk). Nominated by MaranoFan (talk) at 08:02, 15 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Carnival (Kanye West and Ty Dolla Sign song); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Album Cover

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The album cover depicts a caucasian male with a buzz cut getting punched in the face, along with some barely visible figures in the background. It is unclear who the man on the cover is with many people speculating this was created with Generative AI. TheOminousBlade (talk) 08:43, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Carnival (¥$ song)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Kyle Peake (talk · contribs) 19:26, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: MaranoFan (talk · contribs) 18:58, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, KP! It is nice to be doing another one of these reviews for you/West. This is the song that made me a stan. If you have some time on your hands, I would greatly appreciate a review on Dance the Night which has been struggling to get reviewed for months.--NØ 18:58, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thats really interesting you became a stan from "Carnival", how come this song in particular? And yes, id be up for reviewing the article. K. Peake 06:06, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's hard to pinpoint something particular, but maybe the beat? I will have this review up before Sunday, hopefully.--NØ 18:38, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead and infobox

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  • Infobox looks perfectly fine! Maybe add alt texts?
  • Is there a reason ¥$ is introduced as the American hip hop superduo, but Rich the Kid is just "rapper" and not "the rapper"?
  • "It was produced by West, Ty Dolla Sign, Ojivolta, TheLabCook, and the Legendary Traxster, who served as co-writers with the rappers and Samuel Lindley." - This appears quite unclear. Who is "who" referring to, and if that includes West and Ty Dolla Sign then who is "the rappers" referring to? Might benefit from a sentence split.
  • "On February 15, 2024, "Carnival" was released as the third and final single from the album" - This sentence begins a new paragraph so you could perhaps name the album.
  • "It stood as the second number-one" - "It became the second number-one"
  • "It peaked within the top-10 of 14 other territories" - Does a secondary source mention this exact number?
  • Nope, however this is summarizing the information that is already written out and sourced in commercial performance since listening 13 countries (South Africa is streaming only chart) would be tedious. --K. Peake 21:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After it topped the Hot 100, an accompanying music video was released." - This seems to imply West released a music video because the song went number one. Was that the case? If not, I would just get rid of the Hot 100 bit from this sentence entirely.

Background and recording

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  • "The rapper explained working together brought realization of his heavy appreciation for West" - Several rappers are mentioned in the preceding sentence so "the rapper" does not work as an identifier
  • "Speaking to Complex in April 2024" - Is the fact that the interview was given to Complex of significance for some reason? The magazine name could probably be omitted
  • "the rapper and Ty Dolla Sign were dedicated to production of his fourth album Life's a Gamble" - Again, I don't think "the rapper" works because Ty is also a rapper. Due to that reason, it is also not clear whose album Life's a Gamble is.
  • "He envisioned the song as "new-age rage rock star" material upon his first listen and recorded his chorus then the verse, apparently completing this in 15 to 20 minutes at the most." - Why "apparently"? MOS:CLAIM

Composition and lyrics

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  • "In the lyrics of "Carnival", West, Ty Dolla Sign, Rich the Kid, and Playboi Carti discuss their experiences of oral sex with a women." - "with a woman" or "with women"
  • A direct quote is not being used so Cristal (wine) should probably be referred to by its full name rather than just Cris.
  • Does West later asking Kim to take his kids out of Sierra Canyon school belong in the Composition section for this song? Also, it should be Carnival, not "Arnival" in the title of ref 38.
  •  Done the first one, although I think this gives some insight as to the lyrical meaning and should not be in background because it is only relevant to one lyric not the song as a whole. --K. Peake 21:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Release and promotion

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  • Carnival being the final single from Vultures 1 is not sourced.
  • "shows a close-up shot of a screaming and bloodied skinhead" is too close to the source wording, "depicts a close-up of a screaming and bloodied skinhead", imo. Direct quote it or paraphrase.
  • "who previously created the music video for Havoc's version of fellow album single "Vultures"" - "fellow album single" is unnecessarily wordy, just say something like "West's 2024 song "Vultures""
  • I don't think the TikTok Billboard Top 50 is considered a notable chart as the usual chart updaters do not add it to Charts tables. As such, an inclusion in the prose is quite hard to justify. Remove it.
  • "After the track reached number one on the US Billboard Hot 100, Rich the Kid said that him and West achieving this as independent artists was "crazy, because people was asking me why I'm going so hard" - Why is this in the Release and promotion section?
  •  Comment: the comments are notable and I'm not sure where else this should be mentioned – this is obviously to promote the song and would it really fit in commercial performance? --K. Peake 21:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

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  • "In Rolling Stone, Jayson Buford offered the song manages to invoke West's previous albums Yeezus (2013) and The Life of Pablo (2016)" - I don't think "offered" is the correct choice here. Try "thought" or "believed"
  • "He named Playboi Carti's appearance one of the best on Vultures 1, although identified West's performance as among its worst lyricism" - "He named Playboi Carti's appearance one of the best on Vultures 1, although he identified West's performance as among the album's worst lyricism"
  • I don't think Grammy submissions are usually included in Wikipedia articles so those should be removed. Although, knowing West's record, I am sure he will actually get nominated and then that can be added.
  • I don't think Us Weekly is considered the most reputed source. I mean, it's probably passable at the GA level, but I don't think something gossip-y told to them by an anonymous source is due weight.
  •  Not done while I understand these concerns, WP:RSP lists no consensus for the source and the fact it has a secondary source backing it up provides reliability for this article – I can link to other sources agreeing if you want to. --K. Peake 21:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial performance

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  • " It fell to number four on the chart a week later, then rebounded to the second position." - This feels a bit excessive (WP:CHARTTRAJ), but you can certainly keep that it spent a second week at number one during its fourth week.
  • "It stood as West's fifth chart-topper" - "It became West's fifth chart-topper"
  • "The song also topped the US Hot Rap Songs chart, becoming West's 11th number-one, Ty Dolla Sign's third, and the first for the other rappers on the chart." - While I understand that this probably refers to Rich the Kid and Playboi Carti, a mention wouldn't hurt
  • I am not seeing any mention of 1 million streaming units on the Greece chart reference.
  •  Not done in the cases of certifications, these numbers don't need sources added since they are the established numbers for the certifications like the table even has automatically. --K. Peake 21:55, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • "standing as the highest of the three entries" - "becoming the highest of the three entries"
  • "the song was certified silver for shelving 200,000 units in the UK" - shelving...? The 200,000 units part is unsourced.
  •  Not done per previous
  • "The track ranked lower in the top 15 for the next two weeks on the chart" - Again, kind of excessive information
  •  Not done per previous
  • Carnival has charted on the TOSAC Local & International Streaming Chart, so Billboard South Africa should not be included in the Charts table or the prose per WP:GOODCHARTS

Music video

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  • "A shot is of the song's artwork is shown around 20 seconds in" - Typo
  • "For The Atlantic, Kornhaber noted that the "mesmerizing 'Carnival' music video" shows" - The direct quote could be shortened to "mesmerizing" since the following three words are generic.

Track listing

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  • The duration for the clean version is incorrect.
  • This section should be removed per Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs#Single track listings, but I have also seen some users who keep it. If you choose to remove it, though, make sure to source the duration of the original version in the article body since it appears in the infobox.

Charts

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  • Billboard South Africa chart should go. Otherwise good!

Certifications

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Good to go

Notes and references

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  • Split the Notes and references into separate "Notes" and "References" sections as they have little to do with each other.
  • The Us Weekly anonymous source should be removed as mentioned above due to reliability concerns.
  • You might want to make sure song titles are in single quotes and album titles are italicized in the ref titles per MOS:CONFORMTITLE.
  • I am not sure Category:Taylor Swift is entirely warranted here.

Verdict

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  • Everything looks fine, but I would like to know why you think the track listing section is justified given the guideline linked above? If there is a good argument, a general discussion could be started about changing it. You also have to change "shelving" to something else, like "selling", and if it being the final single from the album cannot be sourced then that word should be removed.—NØ 20:27, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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