Talk:Christian Service Brigade
|This page was nominated for deletion on 30 December 2014 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.|
|WikiProject Scouting||(Rated Start-class, Low-importance)|
|WikiProject Christianity||(Rated Start-class, Low-importance)|
Brigade chretienne d'haiti specialement Bataillon de mission de Dieu de la revelation
je suis charles franckylet chef de bataillon voici mon email firstname.lastname@example.org j'aimerais avoir votre contact pour ameliorer notre service en tant que serviteur de Dieu j'attends votre aide mon numero est 37610177 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) 15:23, 27 June 2010
US and Canada organization
Just wanted to point out that the group's websites lists numerous associated churches in both the US and Canada. See http://www.csbministries.org/site/church_directory/ and http://csbministries.ca/churches.html Though the organization is somewhat separate entities for each country probably for tax reasons they do not seem to differ in program (and staff seems to move from one to the other); this wikipedia article covers both so cannot just be merged into an article about US youth organizations. Now one might argue about whether the organization is notable enough in the first place to be in wikipedia; I can't find numbers of members and non-CBS sources seem scant though I did see something on the website that indicated 4,000 households received the newsletter. --Erp (talk) 04:52, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why this article keeps getting redirected without any discussion. --evrik (talk) 05:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- User:Spshu created an article entitled "Independent Scout and Scout-like organizations in the United States" a year and a bit ago and move a lot of youth organization groups into it with redirects from the original name even those that were fairly large like Awana so definitely deserve their own article and some not even US only or very Scout-like. A subsequent discussion ended up with many of the redirects undone and the article eventually renamed Youth organizations in the United States and is being worked upon (I'm incline to cut down what exists there on CSB a bit more so we don't duplicate what is in this article). The originator isn't completely happy with this. I've started this section in part to provide a place for discussion in case a redirect is tried again. --Erp (talk) 05:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- It was created as "Scout-like organizations in the United States". Size of the organization isn't a requirement for a separate article, Erp, under Wikipedia:Notability, which is determine on the strengths of the outside sources. It is your personal opinion that they "some not even US only or very Scout-like" as they are sourced as scouting alternative thus scout-like. No subsequent discussion accur, just Erp and other others that decided under false pretense that a) no discussion occurred even though both of you know about it, b) some other standard than applies. There are absolutely no sources in the article besides a single primary source. The List of organizations is a way to have them cover and work on until that organization's section is up to notability standards. The redirects also allows access to the previous written article if some one can move to their sandbox or to draft space instead of meanly just out right asking for deletion.
- Your so-called re-opened discussion to change it to "Youth organizations in the United States" took place on CHRISTMAS DAY in a matter of hours, hardly a day to reach a consensus, particularly egged on by DiverScout, who incorrect move the article to "Independent Scouting and Scout-like organizations in the United States" under that being right over ride any discussion. He later came clean that he had no idea what "independent scouting" means. I don't mind reopening discussion, but they should end the same way as the have been sourced as "scouting" alternatives and lack notability. Secondly, you did not solve one of the problems that the two of you claim to exist some of the organizations' international status. Not addressing the seemly true issue you muck up the article even more. Which if some name change that can address that issue is actually proposed instead of the "Youth org of US", which doesn't do so. Thirdly, you MOVED they article which isn't so easy to reverse unlikely the redirects which should not require more effort and time to come to conclusion to discussion. Reversal of the redirect is edit warring against Notability. Spshu (talk) 14:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- I think this article should stay, but that it can be referenced from an independent scouting article. --evrik (talk) 15:16, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- The discussion on renaming the other page started in April 2014 and several people agreed it was an appropriate change in name over the course of months. I will note that I would not classify Christian Service Brigade as an independent _scouting_ organization but more as a scouting alternative program. It does not claim descent from the ideas of Baden-Powell. Note that historically the Boys Brigade movement which is explicitly Christian is older than Scouting though I'm not sure of the connections between it and Christian Service Brigade beyond similar name, teaching Christianity, and camping. As far as notability, no size isn't the only criteria (though it can be a major one). I'm inclined to keep this page because the organization is binational (which is the reason redirecting it to a specifically US org page as you wanted does not work) and it seems to be sufficiently notable to need a mention somewhere in Wikipedia (the other option is creating a page on evangelical Christian youth ministries that it not nation specific). I'll follow up further on your deletion request --Erp (talk) 16:11, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- No as it did not address your issues with the name, binational. I attempt to steer discussion towards scouting alternative and towards addressing bi-national or multinational issues to no avail as the new name doesn't address either.
- Descending from Baden-Powell's idea isn't a requirement as some one can reinvent or concurrently invent ideas. I was half expecting it to be a descendant of the Boys Brigade movement, which was military drills and bible verse studying, given the name, but too many sources about how former BSA members upon joining their staff or learning about the find them to be very scout like. Same with former GSA members and Pioneer Girls/Clubs, who will deny copying scouting saying they copied CSB. Note a source indicates in the title Pioneer Girls as scouts - "Pioneer Girls: Mid-Twentieth-Century American Evangelicalism's Girl Scouts". Alexander Bell is give the patent and credit for the telephone filling just days before Elisha Grey. The steam engine and trains were invented during the Roman Empire, were seen not very useful and was forgotten during the Middle Ages. The Vikings found America before Columbus.
- O, by the way, if you poke around on CSB US & CA websites, you will find that the CA organization is independent of the US and license the name and program from the US organization. But they can be easily covered in the same article. So, no it isn't a bi-national organization as two national organizations.
- You mean the bits like "It has been my honor and privilege to serve CSB in a “dual leadership role” since November 2009, when I accepted the invitation to serve as president of CSB US while continuing as president of CSB Canada." I would say they are pretty close knit when the same person is president of both organizations. From a legal point of view it does make sense to keep the assets and donations in each country distinct. --Erp (talk) 04:27, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
- evrik, you can link to a section of an article Christian Service Brigade or if the page was a redirect who send them to the list page even to that section if set up right. Spshu (talk) 00:52, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Christian Service Brigade or CSB Ministries?
Which should be the preferred name for this article? The web page has "CSB Ministries: Christian Service Brigade" so CSB Ministries is more of its official name while Christian Service Brigade is the better known name. --Erp (talk) 04:33, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
- Preferred name is the common name "Christian Service Brigade" per WP:COMMONNAME. --Spshu (talk) 00:20, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
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