Talk:Circuit de la Sarthe

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sports Car Racing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sports Car Racing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sports Car RacingWikipedia:WikiProject Sports Car RacingTemplate:WikiProject Sports Car RacingSports Car Racing articles

Motorsport High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Motorsport, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Motorsport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MotorsportWikipedia:WikiProject MotorsportTemplate:WikiProject Motorsportmotorsport articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

France Mid‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Motorcycle racing

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Motorcycle racing, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of motorcycle racing on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Motorcycle racingWikipedia:WikiProject Motorcycle racingTemplate:WikiProject Motorcycle racingMotorcycle racing articles

Blanking

I've blanked the article and restored most of the content in 24 Hours of Le Mans the Circuit de Sarthe is not the Bugatti track ! -- Ericd 21:37, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Images

Shouldn't there be a track diagram and possibly some photos? -- 60.231.123.64 15:31, 26 July 2006

Name of the track

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move - The current title appears to be the most common name in English-language reliable sources. According to Wikipedia's guidelines about common names, "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's 'official' name as an article title; it instead uses the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." Neelix (talk) 22:03, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Circuit de la Sarthe → Circuit des 24 Heures –

Better get this discussion put on the discussion list. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The track is only called "Circuit de la Sarthe" in the video game "Grand Turismo". In the real life, it is called "Circuit des 24 Heures" or "Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans". Woodcote (talk) 22:33, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, yes. Moving. -- Matthead Discuß 18:47, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The article has been moved back to "Circuit de la Sarthe" by User:The359 with a rather strange summary. Also, the references he provides is just a news site, not the official site of the ACO and the 24h race. The official 2008 supplementary race rules state:

3.3 - Organiser :
The Association Sportive Automobile of the Automobile-Club de l'Ouest
"24 Heures du Mans" organises the "24 HEURES DU MANS"  using all
facilities supplied by the Automobile Club de l'Ouest, the creator of the event.
Address :
Circuit des "24 Heures"
72019 LE MANS Cedex 2 (FRANCE)
Tel. : 00 33 / (0)2 43 40 24 24
Fax. : 00 33 / (0)2 43 40 24 25
E-mail : sport@lemans.org
Web site : http://www.lemans.org

3.5 - Lieu de l'épreuve : Circuit des "24 Heures du Mans"
3.5 – Venue of the event : Circuit of the “24 Heures du Mans"

BTW: Seule la version française fera foi. The French version is the only one valid. -- Matthead Discuß 21:30, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The address of the ACO does not specify which circuit they are refering to. There are two circuits. Numerous references back the Circuit de la Sarthe name, as well as television broadcasts. The only instances of "Circuit des 24 Heures" is on the entry gate (again, not specifying which circuit) and the address listed above.

Also keep in mind that secondary sources should be used, so a reliable source such as a news site is valid. The359 (talk) 22:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The official web page describes "Le circuit des 24 heures" under "Accueil > ACO > Les infrastructures > Les circuits > 24 Heures" and the URL http://www.lemans.org/fr/aco/site/circuits-24-heures.html (english: "The longest circuit" "Homepage > The ACO > The infrastructures > The circuits > 24 Heures" http://www.lemans.org/en/aco/infrastructures/circuits-24-heures.html). And, just like shown above, the official supplementary regulations for the 2011 race still state

3.5 - Lieu de l'épreuve : Circuit des "24 Heures du Mans"      3.5 – Venue of the event : Circuit of the “24 Heures du Mans
3.9 - Longueur du circuit : 13,629 km      3.9 - Length of the race track : 13.629 km

And the last page shows a map titled CIRCUIT DES 24 HEURES DU MANS – 13,629 km. Thus, the article needs to be moved, no matter what dubious web pages and playstation fans say. -- Matthead Discuß 10:22, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What dubious website are you refering to? To claim the only thing refering to the circuit as Le Sarthe is a video game is flat out facetious. The facility is the Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans, which contains the Circuit de la Sarthe and the Bugatti Circuit. Maintaining this article as Circuit de la Sarthe was correct when we had, at the time, a seperate article on the Bugatti Circuit. The³5₉ (Talk) 14:01, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The promotor, the french department of sports and the ASN use the name Circuit des 24 Heures, more Wikipedia:Verifiability is not possible. IMHO there no arguments against the renaming. Regards --Pitlane02 talk 10:08, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, it's correct that the track was named as Circuit de la Sarthe in the history (map 1906), but today... Regards --Pitlane02 talk 11:01, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a few books that refer specifically to the Circuit de la Sarthe (1, 2, 3, 4). Here's OAK Racing refering to it as the "Le Sarthe circuit", and AF Corse refering to the Circuit de la Sarthe, and Krohn Racing, and Proton Competition to name a few. And for good measure a few good websites. (1, 2, 3)

And it's certainly still up to debate on what names apply to what, as in the specific circuit for the 24 Hours of Le Mans or for the ACO's entire facility. Certainly, if this article is to include information on both the full circuit and the Bugatti circuit, then the complex name would be prudent.

But of course there is also the factor of WP:COMMONNAME. The Rolex 24 at Daytona is certainly the official name of a race, but the article is still 24 Hours of Daytona. Besides the ACO, the use of "Circuit des 24 Heures" does not appear that much. The³5₉ (Talk) 07:13, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Every of your sources were historical or third or fourth party sources. I agree with you completely, that the circuit was named Circuit de la Sarthe in the past, and I'm sure we found thousends of sites with the old name. But every actual official page like the promotor, the french department of sports and the ASN (highst motorsport organisation in every country) use the name Circuit des 24 Heures. That's not an opion, I'm reflecting only the official sources. Regards --Pitlane02 talk 08:32, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

BTW: Perhaps I've found the reason for the renaming, please see the footer under this text. Only 50% of the shares is owned by the French department Sarthe. Regards --Pitlane02 talk 14:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing here doubts that the title of Circuit des 24 Heures exists, I'm simply stating that the use of the Circuit de la Sarthe title is not made up or wrong. It's possible the name changed over time, but that does not address the fact that Circuit de la Sarthe appears to be a popular name for the circuit, or at least the overall facility that houses two circuits. There is not a requirement for the article title to be the official title. See Circuit Ricardo Tormo. The³5₉ (Talk) 17:18, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The homepage of the promotor, French government, the French motorsport organisation, and the departement Sarthe (and everything with sources) is nothing?! Ok, your opion. By the way, specially your example of Circuit Ricardo Tormo is very good, also this article redirect from the common name to the official name. Regards --Pitlane02 talk 17:47, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Again, you don't appear to be understanding what I am saying. I'm not saying the Circuit des 24 Heuers title is incorrect, I'm saying the Circuit de la Sarthe title is also not incorrect, as in they are both correct titles. One may be more official but as explained in the Circuit Ricardo Tormo example, the article titles do not have to be official names (the official name of that track is Circuit de la Comunitat Valenciana Ricardo Tormo). The³5₉ (Talk) 18:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Are the turns numbered like on most road courses?

Most road tracks have numbered turns. What about this one? I checked their site. Nothing there, not even a track map. I would have contacted someone there, but all their contact information is in French, which I don't know. Will (Talk - contribs) 04:31, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's my understanding that Europeans typically name their corners, while Americans typically number theirs. Bakkster Man (talk) 13:17, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The tendency these days seems to be to number corners even in Europe, even on circuits which do have traditionally-named corners. I suppose it's too much to ask of a driver to remember long names like "Dingle Dell" or "Graham Hill Bend" in an era of goldfishesque attention spans... Mr Larrington (talk) 01:57, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the carnival "infamous"?

In the 5th paragraph of "Track Modifications" there is a mention of the "infamous carnival". Infamous has a negative connotation. Why is it described this way? 216.10.193.23 (talk) 18:17, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know, but note that the exact phase also appears in the article 2002 24 Hours of Le Mans. So if you decide to fix it here, please do the same on that page as well. --RacerX¹¹ Talk to me^{Stalk me} 18:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I asked on the talk page there as well. I assume it was added for a reason so I'd rather not remove it unless I know what that reason is. My Google-fu has failed me so far. 216.10.193.23 (talk) 14:54, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect it's a misguided reference to [[1]] (The "Carnival" spectator section was nearby). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.138.140.227 (talk) 13:53, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hunaudières

Hunaudières currently redirects to this article. Following the recent creation of the Mulsanne Straight article, should it redirect there instead? DH85868993 (talk) 10:07, 26 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Updates

The lap-time record was set on June 15 2017 by Kamui Kobayashi in Toyota's #7 Gazoo Racing LMP1 at 3:14.791. Can someone who knows how to format better than I please update this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by That runner guy (talk • contribs) 13:15, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Shorter circuit after modification of the Porsche curves

The circuit is slightly shorter now, at 13.626 meters: 24 Hours of Le Mans - Second phase of safety work at the Porsche curves now completed -- Epistolarius (talk) 14:01, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Move this article to Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans

The 2024 edition of the 24h race is coming up, and this English language wikipedia article still insists on calling the "Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans" race track "Circuit de la Sarthe". Same on Commons. The proper French "Ligne Droite des Hunaudières" is called Mulsanne Straight even though this refers to a different section of the track. On Commons, too. While at it, why not Rennstrecke von Rheinland-Pfalz? See the official 2024 24h race rules at https://www.24h-lemans.com/fr/lemans/reglements 2024-24-heures-du-mans-supplementary-regulations.pdf

La Compétition a lieu sur le Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans	The Competition takes place on the Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans.
3. Date et lieu de la Compétition Samedi 15 Juin et Dimanche 16 Juin 2024 Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans 72000 LE MANS France	3. Date and place of the Competition Saturday June 15th and Sunday June 16th Circuit of the 24 Hours of Le Mans 72000 LE MANS FRANCE
6. Adresse, numéro de téléphone et e-mail auxquels la correspondance peut être adressée Circuit des 24 Heures 72019 LE MANS Cedex 2 (France) Tél. : 02 43 40 24 24 E-mail : sport@lemans.org	6. Address, telephone number, fax number and email to which enquiries can be addressed Circuit des 24 Heures 72019 LE MANS Cedex 2 (France) Tél. : 02 43 40 24 24 E-mail : sport@lemans.org
ANNEXE 1 Bis COMITE D’HONNEUR Monsieur le Ministre de l’Education Nationale, de la Jeunesse et des Sports Gabriel ATTAL Madame la Ministre déléguée chargées des sports Amélie OUDEA-CASTERA Monsieur le Président de la FIA Mohammed BEN SULAYEM Monsieur le Président de la Fédération Française du Sport Automobile Nicolas DESCHAUX Monsieur le Préfet de la Sarthe Emmanuel AUBRY Madame la Présidente du Conseil Régional des Pays de la Loire Christelle MORANCAIS Monsieur le Président du Département de la Sarthe Dominique LEMENER	APPENDIX 1 Bis: COMITE D’HONNEUR Minister of Education, Youth and Sports Minister of Sports FIA President FFSA President State government representative in Sarthe Pays de la Loire Council President Sarthe Department Council President

Matthead (talk) 02:12, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You tried this same argument...16 years ago. What has changed since then? Here's an Autosport article from just two weeks ago stating Circuit de la Sarthe, and here is DailySportsCar's history of Le Mans stating Circuit de la Sarthe.

As stated 16 years ago, Circuit de la Sarthe and Circuit des 24 Heures du Mans are both correct. This is not an insistence, there just is no reason to change it. The³5₉ (Talk) 05:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]