Talk:Core Four

Core Four was a Sports and recreation good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 13, 2011	Good article nominee	Not listed

Baseball: Yankees Low‑importance

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Picture of the Four

Can someone find a picture of the Core Four together (perhaps with the Commissioner's Trophy during their last World Series together in 2009 or after the final game at the old Yankee Stadium)?

Bloom6132 (talk) 08:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The picture of them holding the WS trophy in 2009 is a great one, but non-free. The SI cover would also be great, but again, non-free. I don't think we have enough fair use rationale. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fielding Stats

Should this article include the Core Four's fielding statistics (as Jeter and Posada do hold some team records for fielding)?

Bloom6132 (talk) 15:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The tables

As it stands, this article has two tables with two rows apiece, as you can't compare hitters to pitchers. Also, Pettitte and Rivera are not directly comparable, since one is a starter and the other a reliever. I've thought about this, and I don't like it. Statistics such as these should probably be in prose, and the tables probably deleted. I know that's what came to mind when I was considering reviewing this for GA, before I decided to help work on it instead. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:17, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Core Four/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Grondemar (talk · contribs) 04:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While this is a pretty good article with a lot of potential, I have several major concerns as noted below:

First sentence: "The Core Four is a term commonly used to refer to New York Yankees players Derek Jeter, Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada, and Mariano Rivera." Commonly among whom? Rather than attempt to cite the term's commonness, I'd recommend dropping the word. Also, don't assume worldwide audiences know what the New York Yankees are; I'd link the word "baseball" somewhere in that first sentence.
The game of the article is "Core Four", but the caption of the first picture talks about the "Key Three". I know that you define Key Three at the end of the lead, but readers will most likely read the picture caption first and get confused. I'd recommend changing the caption to something like: "Three members of the Core Four: Jorge Posada (left), Mariano Rivera (center), and Derek Jeter (right), also known as the Key Three.
"Andy Pettitte had a break in his "service time" when he played in Houston for three seasons, before returning to the Yankees in 2007." Seems too informal and perhaps slightly less than neutral to me.
I'd recommend rewriting the lead more chronologically for better flow. Mention that the four came up together in 1995 and played together on the four Yankees World Series teams of the late 1990s. Mention when Pettitte left for Houston and when he returned, and the World Series championship in 2009. Then mention Pettitte's retirement and the Key Three.
Rather than start with the Beginnings section, I'd recommend starting with a Members section that takes your Individual milestones section and adds a great bit more biographical detail, with {{main}} links to the players' individual articles. Right now the article doesn't clearly introduce who these people are and why they are important.
"Both Jeter and Rivera were demoted back to the minors in June (after the latter gave up a home run to Edgar Martinez)." I doubt they sent down Jeter just because Rivera gave up a home run!
"Later on during the same season, Jeter and Posada were placed in the same hotel in New Jersey and shared a car together in order to travel to and from Yankee Stadium." Even though this is cited, it is of questionable notability. I'm sure many players promoted from the minors share hotels and commute together.
This article really needs a better chronology. Currently the stats come from all directions and don't give the reader a sense of when things happened.
The source for the Andy Pettitte picture marks it as copyrighted. I have tagged it for deletion on Commons. It still might be kept, since there's a chance that the user on Flickr tried to revoke a free license which is not allowed.

Unfortunately, due to concerns with prose quality, broadness and comprehensiveness of content, and the one image's copyright status, that I do not believe can be addressed within the normal 7 day GAN period, I am failing this nomination at this time. I do encourage you to work on the suggestions above and renominate when the article is improved; I believe there is a lot of potential here, and this article could eventually serve as a nice main article for a Featured Topic.

Best of luck, –Grondemar 04:12, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I'm not the nominator, but I will be involved in improving this article going forward. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:36, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your time in reviewing this article. – Bloom6132 (talk) 16:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:Andy Pettitte 3.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Andy Pettitte 3.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests December 2011

What should I do?

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If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used.

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 13:18, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jorge Posada is to the Core Four as Ringo Starr is to the Beatles

Interesting. I will work this article in later. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:44, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Found another article on MLB.com that refers to Jorge as Ringo. This one also compares the rest of the Core Four to the Beatles. Hope this helps. —Bloom6132 (talk) 04:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

End of 2013

We should probably work in the Core Four sendoffs. We have a section on "Beginnings" and "Group achievements", but I'm not sure where to factor in "Endings".[1] – Muboshgu (talk) 12:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The "Endings" section could include Mariano Rivera Day (where Jorgie came back for the ceremony and tossed the first pitch), the Yankees' ceremony for Andy Pettitte (albeit minor compared to Mo's), as well as Mo's memorable Yankee Stadium sendoff (where Jeter and Pettitte take him out of the game). It's bound to be a bit "Mo–centric" for now, but the coverage should be balanced by the time Jeter retires. —Bloom6132 (talk) 14:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I like it. It doesn't have to be too "Mo-centric" though, because we can include Pettitte's first and second retirements, and things about Jeter being the last member standing. Want to give it a shot? There is no such thing as ownership of articles, but clearly this one is more your baby than ours. I'll help as I can. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:41, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, we never added those "Posada/Ringo" links from the above section. We can add on info on Posada's retirement. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:43, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give it shot soon, but probably not this week. Second-year law starts for me and I'll be quite busy. Feel free to carry on without me; I'm more than happy to share a co-nom with you. Cheers! —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:13, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck with that! Time is tough to come by. I'll edit as I can myself. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:38, 29 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! There're no classes for me this week (just lectures), so I'll try to add as much as I can before the storm begins. —Bloom6132 (talk) 01:08, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

An evening with the Core Four

Wish I was there: [2] – Muboshgu (talk) 16:56, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, same here. Do you think Core Four reunions should be mentioned in the article, or is it just purely trivial? —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:11, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since that article references them as "Core Four" and reports on them reflecting on their careers, the source should be useful. That they gather is potentially noteworthy. It depends. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:35, 13 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah Jeets

It'll be good to keep an eye out for any sources that compare Jeter's farewell season to Mariano's. Esp if they use the term "Core Four". – Muboshgu (talk) 14:33, 13 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Another ref

[3] – Muboshgu (talk) 18:06, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]