Talk:Craigie (hamlet), Perth and Kinross

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On 23 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Craigie, Blairgowrie. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Requested move 23 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: ~~no consensus.~~ Moved to Craigie (hamlet), Perth and Kinross, as the option that saw the most support per WP:NOGOODOPTIONS. Editors who disagree with this choice may open a new move request at any time.(non-admin closure) BilledMammal (talk) 16:18, 7 May 2022 (UTC) Updated per request on talk page BilledMammal (talk) 01:09, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Craigie, Perth and Kinross → Craigie, Blairgowrie – More specific location to distinguish from the area of Perth called Craigie, which is also in Perth and Kinross. 188.30.16.210 (talk) 19:37, 23 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 07:00, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support it should probably be Craigie, Clunie as the civil parish but if not Craigie (near Blairgowrie) as its not in Blairgowrie. I originally [[1]] this at RMT for "Craigie, Clunie". Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:26, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have civil parishes in Scotland - they were abolished many years ago. Since 1975 the closest equivalent has been that of communities. Craigie and Clunie are both in the community called "Spittalfield and District", but I don't think many people would recognise that name as the community council is presently inactive. Much more meaningful to disambiguate by Blairgowrie, the main town of the area, as that is the way people would naturally distinguish this Craigie from the one in Perth. We don't normally use "near" in addresses and locations. 188.30.16.210 (talk) 20:50, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, why does Wikipedia have articles on tiny places like Craigie and Clunie, but not as far as I can see for Spittalfield, the main settlement in the community? 188.30.16.210 (talk) 20:56, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can see Craigie is only "in" Blairgowrie as a post town (as opposed to district or parish like Hayton, Carlisle or Newbiggin, Dacre) and WP:UKPLACE says disambiguation should never be to post town therefore "near" is probably best if "Blairgowrie" is thought to be the best disambigator. Regarding Spittalfield yes it should probably have an article here, an article already exists at de:Spittalfield. I'll start a draft at Draft:Spittalfield. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:54, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, Craigie is not in Blairgowrie, it's in Spittalfield, but I don't think Craigie, Spittalfield would be very helpful to most readers. Blairgowrie is a much more recognisable name. I was looking for similar examples where there are two places in Perth and Kinross with the same name, and I found Kinnaird, Gowrie and Kinnaird, Atholl. Following this model, Craigie would be Craigie, Stormont, but I don't think using these ancient province names is such a good idea. 188.30.16.210 (talk) 23:23, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What's wrong with Craigie (near Blairgowrie)? That is identifiable as being near Blairgowrie which not saying its in Blairgowrie. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:40, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any other articles that user (near town) as a disambiguator? Eopsid (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Burton (near Neston)#Requested move 3 October 2020. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:49, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject UK geography has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 07:01, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Scotland has been notified of this discussion. 🐶 EpicPupper ^{(he/him | talk)} 07:01, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I don't think Blairgowrie is the best disambiguator if Craigie is not in Blairgowrie. Per WP:SCOTLANDPLACE, the traditional region should be used (I'm not sure what that is though). I wouldn't support using Craigie (near Blairgowrie) as places in Scotland are disambiguated in the style of placename, council area and not parenthetically. I support moving the page to a better title but I'm not sure what should come after the comma. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 08:19, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If we used the traditional region it would be Craigie, Stormont, or if we used the present-day sub-division of Perth and Kinross it would be Craigie, Spittalfield and District, but as stated above neither of these seems particularly idiomatic or locally recognisable. If you asked someone on the street which Craigie they meant, they would probably say "the Perth one" or "the Blairgowrie one", so Blairgowrie seems the natural disambiguator even though it's in the neighbouring community. 188.28.201.175 (talk) 09:37, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Craigie (hamlet), Perth and Kinross. Makes it clear. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:57, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's also not something I've seem before in the UK but I'd be fine with it. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:05, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not a good idea. The word "hamlet" is rarely used in Scotland, being principally associated with the South of England and the Midlands, where the Anglo-Norman influence was strongest. The original proposed name Craigie, Blairgowrie still seems neater and more natural than any of the alternative suggestions, and it would be consistent with nearby Kinloch, Blairgowrie, where we use "Blairgowrie" to distinguish from the Kinloch near Coupar Angus, both in Perth and Kinross. 188.28.137.70 (talk) 14:41, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Actually that's a good point the word "hamlet" isn't really used much in Scotland though Kinloch, Blairgowrie should probably also be moved as its not in Blairgowrie and Kinloch is a parish in its own right. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:04, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose—First, I think the need for disambiguation here is relatively low as the proposed move here is for a village while the other article is about a neighborhood/suburb, and the two articles are distinguished by title already. An alternative approach could be to deal with the type of settlement, where the two articles could be distinguished as Craigie, Perth and Kinross (village) and Craigie, Perth, Scotland (neighborhood) or a variation on this. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 23:28, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.