Talk:Criticism of Twelver Shia Islam
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Criticism of Twelver Shia Islam article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
This article was nominated for deletion on 29 November 2010 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
On 23 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Criticism of Twelver Shia Islam to Criticism of Shia Islam. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Index
|
|||
This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 1 section is present. |
Recent additions in Fatimah's section
[edit]In those recent additions by @Belomaad,
the source "Al-Fisal fi al-Milal wa al-Ahwa' wa al-Nihal ("The Separator Concerning Religions, Heresies, and Sects"" was found to be in Arabic, so I couldn't verify what is states.
The source "Talbees Iblees ("The Devil's Deception")"[1], does not contain anything about Fatimah, Gabriel or Twelver Shias for that matter, on its page (71-72).
I cannot locate the source "Mukhtasar al-Sawa`iq (“Summary of the Lightning bolt)" by Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab.
The possible unreliable source "AbdurRahman.Org's": "Fataawaa of Muslim Scholars on Khomeini: Khomeini’s assertion that Wahi (Revelation)------" is redirecting to a missing page. Same with the source "Shia Believe in Holy Books After the Quran: Mushaf Fatima, by Ibn al-Hashimi."
I'am thinking of removing those new additions. StarkReport (talk) 05:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- @StarkReport you are reading a different edition so the pages won't match. You might want to use ctrl + f. Belomaad (talk) 09:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- You might want to use google translate or a similar tool for the books that aren't available in English.
- The links also redirect me to a missing page. Probably, a typo. I will fix it Belomaad (talk) 10:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't recall adding any link for the latter source. But it may be a good idea to add one, in case the reader wishes to use the book for further reference Belomaad (talk) 10:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Belomaad, I don't think it is a "different edition" problem. But are you 100% confident that the sources indeed contain what you wrote? Otherwise, I think this is just a "Source: Trust Me Bro" scenario.
- Pinging @Albertatiran, @Ghazaalch, @Iskandar323, for their thoughts. StarkReport (talk) 10:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- None of these users know Arabic. I think you might want to ping @Ahendra instead. Belomaad (talk) 11:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- @MezzoMezzo is also proficient in the language Belomaad (talk) 12:43, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- hi.. my Arabic is basic and not too advanced, but i will try to help...
- None of these users know Arabic. I think you might want to ping @Ahendra instead. Belomaad (talk) 11:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- regarding the talbees Iblees, i will need time to check. but the link u provided is english one
- regarding Mukhtasar al-Sawa`iq, i find this one instead, its not written by Muhammad ibn Abd Al Wahhab, but instead its written by Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya. so im not sure this is the same book with the one mentioned above.
- regarding,Al-Fisal fi al-Milal wa al-Ahwa' wa al-Nihal ("The Separator Concerning Religions, Heresies, and Sects), i need links to read its content
for while, perhaps you could check about this as consideration Islamqa answer in English from Muhammad Al-Munajjid regarding some criticism of Twelver Shia .Ahendra (talk) 13:11, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- @StarkReport I can't speak to this case with certainty but Belomaad's poorly-sourced contributions to Umm Kulthum bint Ali were swiftly removed by an admin when I reported this user to ANI (Admins' Noticeboard/Incidents). Here again, Belomaad's sources may not qualify as reliable and secondary. As just one example, the above Al-Fisal is obviously a primary source. More useful info about what constitutes a reliable source can be found in WP:CITE and related pages. If you need help about sources, I'd be happy to help out or you may also report any suspicious sources to Reliable Sources/Noticeboard. Albertatiran (talk) 06:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- the page you linked doesn't mention anything about primary sources.
- Al-Fisal isn't a primary as it was written 100s of years after the event of writing the Mushaf took places. In this case, a primary source would be a hadith or a verse or a compilation of such thing. In fact, the book is commenting on secondary sources. Belomaad (talk) 06:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Belomaad, based on my understanding, the WP:Burden currently rests with you, until Ahendra verifies the primary Arabic source. As for the sources: "Talbees Iblees (The Devil's Deception)" and "Mukhtasar al-Sawa`iq (“Summary of the Lightning bolt”)", It's best if you can confidently quote specific parts in them which support your written material here.
- Additionally, "Sunnahonline" appears to be an unreliable blog site. The only source I am uncertain about is "Mahajjah.com."
- Until then, the substantial amount of material you have added will need to be removed. StarkReport (talk) 09:57, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- Sunnaonline is not the one being quoted but rather the book which can be accessed on Sunna online Belomaad (talk) 11:32, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
- @StarkReport I can't speak to this case with certainty but Belomaad's poorly-sourced contributions to Umm Kulthum bint Ali were swiftly removed by an admin when I reported this user to ANI (Admins' Noticeboard/Incidents). Here again, Belomaad's sources may not qualify as reliable and secondary. As just one example, the above Al-Fisal is obviously a primary source. More useful info about what constitutes a reliable source can be found in WP:CITE and related pages. If you need help about sources, I'd be happy to help out or you may also report any suspicious sources to Reliable Sources/Noticeboard. Albertatiran (talk) 06:10, 30 July 2024 (UTC)