Talk:Culture of Saudi Arabia/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Untitled

A note at Saudi Arabia will do. Wetman 21:15, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

POV-lead tag

I copy part of my edit summary: "this lead is totally out of whack and focuses exclusively on what, from a western perspective, is forbidden." Drmies (talk) 17:18, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree, the lead is awful and focuses almost entirely on negative aspects. The simple fact is, this is systematic bias at its worse - the article really needs an expert on the subject, and I ain't it. All the "bad" (in the eyes of the Western world, and my own too!) aspects overshadow the culture of Saudi Arabia today, mainly thanks to the Extreme form of submission there. It has a rich food, musical and dancing, nomadic and also, dress, though not the Niqab stuff. That's all I Know. --Τασουλα (Almira) (talk) 23:42, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree as well. I went to this page to learn about the real culture of Saudi Arabia, because all you hear in the US is the bad things. To be confronted with such blatant bias as I read bothers me as Wikipedia holds high standards for NPOV, and the neutrality tags have been here for quite some time. Saudi Arabia does have a horrible track record of human/women's rights and allowing freedom of expression and I think that it is fine to have a segment about how extremely restrictive laws affect the culture. However, I do not think that the extremely restrictive laws should be the entire focus of the page. Also, there are very few citations and I am contemplating adding a citation needed tag. 184.78.162.36 (talk) 06:06, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree on the issue raised. The introduction although conveying a certain degree of truth is very crude and degrades the culture of Saudi Arabia. The introduction needs to be concise and there is a clear sense of a biased view in the tone of the paragraph. Therefore the introduction must be slightly modified to remove harsh perspectives. It must also include a more broader spectrum about Saudi Arabian culture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sisyphus110 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

unrepresentative image

please put a picture of a saudi man not an african servant ! the guy who's serving coffe is not saudis or even arab he is a servant east african ! in arabian society all the servant are black african,the rulers are arab native people there is a racial tree distinction so if you want to put something about saudis put an arab saudis picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sofiane2k6 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

this is true. I changed it. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:47, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Redo of article

Am attempting to improve the article adding customs, marriage, family, etc. Have to say, however, that the idea that "dance", "music" or "art" play a large part in Saudi culture would probably make most Saudis laugh out loud. --BoogaLouie (talk) 17:10, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

LGBT section

section was deleted by anon editor. here. I realise this stuff is controversial and even surprising but it is based on more than one reputable source with a good deal of journalistic experience in the kingdom and region. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:18, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Here it is:

LGBT sexuality

Saudi is one of ten countries where homosexuality is punishable by death (the punishment of stoning to death may be applied to married men who've engaging in sodomy or any non-Muslim married or unmarried who commits sodomy with a Muslim[1]), although the sentence is more likely to be a public flogging and a long confinement in prison.[2]

However, according to several outside observers, more common than punishment of gay sex is a refusal to acknowledge its existence in the kingdom.[3] While "the self-consciously `gay` (or LGBT subculture") of the West was/is not tolerated, homosexuality itself is "almost as ubiquitous in Saudi Arabia as the wearing of long white robes,"[3] as gay men reportedly "cruise and party undeterred".[4]

Public displays of enthusiastic affection between men[2]—such as the holding of hands and even the "exchange of light kisses"—are "considered normal",[5] while non-marital heterosexuality is made very difficult by strictly enforced segregation of genders.[5][6] The same issues affect lesbian relationships.[7]

  1. ^ Rupar, Terri (February 24, 2014). "Here are the 10 countries where homosexuality may be punished by death". washington Post.
  2. ^ a b Tripp, Harvey (2003). Culture Shock, Saudi Arabia. Singapore: Portland, Oregon: Times Media Private Limited. p. 100.
  3. ^ a b Bradley, John R. (2005). Saudi Arabia Exposed : Inside a Kingdom in Crisis. Palgrave. p. 156. ... that everyone in Saudi Arabia (including the religious police) seems to be in agreement that boys going with boys is an inevitable consequence of keeping girls pure until they are married, and in that sense a worthwhile trade-off ... the trick seems to be not to mention the subject, not to acknowledge its existence ...
  4. ^ Whitaker, Brian (2005). Unspeakable Love: Gay and Lesbian Life in the Middle East. University of California Press. p. 57. Egypt, where there is no law against same-sex acts and yet people are prosecuted and persecuted; ... Saudi Arabia, where in theory the death penalty applies but gay men cruise and party undeterred.
  5. ^ a b Bradley, John R. (2005). Saudi Arabia Exposed : Inside a Kingdom in Crisis. Palgrave. p. 154. Cite error: The named reference "bradley-expo-154" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  6. ^ LABI, NADYA (May 2007). "The Kingdom in the Closet". The Atlantic. Retrieved 3 October 2014. `It's a lot easier to be gay than straight here,` he had said. `If you go out with a girl, people will start to ask her questions. But if I have a date upstairs and my family is downstairs, they won't even come up.` ...This legal and public condemnation notwithstanding, the kingdom leaves considerable space for homosexual behavior. As long as gays and lesbians maintain a public front of obeisance to Wahhabist norms, they are left to do what they want in private.
  7. ^ Lacey, Robert (2009). Inside the Kingdom : Kings, Clerics, Modernists, Terrorists, and the Struggle for Saudi Arabia. Viking. pp. 278, 280. 'you are mad if you have an affair with a man. With a woman it is safe. No one can question why you spend an evening at home together.'

More Dispute with anon editor

Recently rvted a big deletion by 209.50.138.253 see here for more details. Long story short, journalists/writers Whitaker, Bradley, Lobi, and Lacey all have spent a lot of time in Saudi. --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:23, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Prove that they were in Saudi Arabia anyone can just make up that they went there an "interviewed" these people. Especially because they're all Iranian and Americans, not actually from a Saudi news-person. How do we know they're legit? They could easily just be pushing their lifestyle choice? And I actually have a friend named Aryaf Al-shehri (an real married Saudi women) and she tells me that she hasn't experienced any homosexuals in Saudi Arabia. Ask her yourself at twitter.com/aryafology. Tell her that Jacob (me) told you to ask her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.50.138.253 (talk) 21:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
Please stop deleting sourced information. WIkipedia regs call for information from WP:Reliable Sources. You may or may not have a friend who has experienced no homosexuality in KSA but we have to go by what reliable sources say, not what you consider "proof". --BoogaLouie (talk) 23:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Vast expansion

I'm responsible for the adding to this article. The idea is to make it an expanded version of the Culture section of the Saudi Arabia article. i.e. anything that was too long for that section goes here. --BoogaLouie (talk) 21:48, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

changing picture

King Abdullah practising falconry, a traditional pursuit in Saudi Arabia

The "Saudis welcome their guests" picture
was replaced by the falconry one below it
in response to this complaint (above)
(One of the characteristics of Saudi society is that while coffee is served to guests, saudis very seldom do the serving (certainly not royalty). It is done by foreign servants. Attempts to replace expat retail workers with Saudis have failed because Saudis will not work at service jobs. This is not some unspoken embarrassment. Saudis do not want to be served by other Saudis. They feel it is inappropriate. They want foreigners to served them.) --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Leave

I removed some of the info about lgbt because the info gives a false impression of acceptance which can put gays in danger in Saudi Arabia. Do you want them to be safe? If you revert it, people will incorrectly think it's safe to be openly gay and they could get tortured, castrated, arrested, fined or executed for it. Leave it alone for their safety. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.121.83.151 (talk) 05:13, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I've offered some advice over at Talk:LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia#Current dispute where you've made similar edits. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:17, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

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