Talk:Danzy Senna

Fair use rationale for Image:Caucasia.jpg

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Fanny Howe

Fanny Howe is not an "Irish-American", in any conventional use of that term. Her father was Harvard Law professor Mark DeWolfe Howe, of a family of English origin established in Boston for centuries. Her mother was a native of Ireland.

Fair use rationale for Image:Caucasia.jpg

Image:Caucasia.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Bibliography for Possible Information

I am working on Danzy Senna's article for a class project. These are some possible sources I may use:

(must have an authenticated log in or be a member of a registered institution to unveil full text)

Laur denis (talk) 19:41, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

References

Lead Section

Again, I am working on Danzy Senna's article for a class project. Below is a possible way to improve the article's lead section. Aside from adding information, I also hope to help the organization of the article. I am most worried about plagiarism and not citing things correctly. If anyone sees a mistake, please fix it and let me know what the problem was! Thanks!

Danzy Senna was born in Boston, MA on January 1, 1970 to civil rights activists, Carl Senna and Fanny Howe . She is an American fiction novelist who frequently writes about the issues and struggles of multiracial and multicultural people. Senna's first work, Caucasia (1998), which has been translated into eight languages, put her on the map as a contemporary author as it has won multiple awards, was listed as a Los Angeles Times Best Book of the Year, and was a finalist for the International IMPAC Dublin Literacy Award . Furthermore, Senna won the Whiting Writers Award and has continued being published. On May 3, 2011, Senna published a collection of stories entitled You Are Free.

Laur denis (talk) 21:08, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

For a lead section, I suggest starting with the most important information and then moving to biographical. Senna has a Wiki page not because she was born, but because she's an American author. "And most popular work" doesn't need to be there. It sounds like a judgement/evaluation that would need to be source referenced-- and that could change as she writes other works. It's notable enough that Caucasia is her first novel, is published in 8 languages and won the awards mentioned. (don't you think?) I'd also recommend instead of "Her most recent piece..." flipping the sentance so it reads, "In May 2011 she published a collection of stories entitled "You Are Free". These are minor suggestions for editing. Pshanks6 (talk) 12:10, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I just noted that the current Lead Section references Danzy Senna as having won the Orange Prize. This is incorrect. She was nominated for it but did not win it and was not one of the top finalists that year. I was trying to dig and find confirmation for the stuff on Caucasia (novel) page and came across that information. Pshanks6 (talk) 18:56, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

References

Live Lead Section

I edited and incorporated the original lead section into the new one. There was an error regarding the Orange Prize for Fiction. Senna's "Caucasia" did not win that award, though it was nominated. Most of the lead section is just more information incorporated with the few original sentences. Laur denis (talk) 02:59, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Content dispute

The same IP user (107.184) consistently (since October 2016) removes a lot of sourced content added by other editors from the article (1; 2; 3). I made an attempt to restore some removed content, and also added more. Absolutely all of it was based on the sources in accordance with their content. This has been removed as well, first by the same IP user, and a little later by a newly registered User:Simonecarmichael.

In the summary of this edit, the user mentioned two points of disagreement (although immeasurably more content was removed). I wanna emphasize that all added content was strictly based on sources:

1. The user said that the piece "about her writing about the pain of looking white" is not in the article cited. It is totally misleading statement as that article clearly says:"...But, in truth, it seems her grandmother did hit her right where it hurt most, as elsewhere in her fiction and autobiographical writings Senna acknowledges the pain of not looking black, and, what is worse, of actually looking white." (p. 133).

2. The user said that the part about 'Caucasian' being inspired by author's life is inaccurate. But this unsubstantiated statement also goes against the source, which says: "The daughter of a white mother and a black father herself, Senna drew Birdie's character from her own childhood struggle with what she called the experience of looking white and identifying as black."

I also have to admit that the sentence about "the pain of not looking black" needs to be put back into the right context to fit the source which makes it clear that it does not mean the pain (of not looking black/of looking white) of every person, but only of a person identifying himself/herself as black. In the right context, such a thesis illustrates the general outline of Senna's work but the wording needs improvement.5.167.161.237 (talk) 20:19, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

COI Article Improvement Suggestions

Hello: I am in a paid conflict of interest relationship with Danzy Senna. I will be proposing article improvements in conformity with Wikipedia’s content policies and etiquette. I welcome feedback on suggested improvements. There are some inaccuracies in the early life section, Where Did You Sleep Last Night section, and some discrepancies between sections regarding her parents ethnicity. In an effort to improve the article, I would like to propose the following edits for review. I have formatted the statements in bold and with strikeout and provided explanations below.

1. Parents ethnicity – this section incorrectly states Danzy’s parents’ ethnicity. It is correctly described in the NPR and New Yorker sources listed in this section of the article. I have added some content below in bolded font that corrects the statement.

2. This statement “Senna's work has largely been influenced by her parents' interracial marriage and subsequent divorce in 1976” is not supported by either source listed, and is inaccurate. Can it be deleted?

3. The statement about ‘hammering racial consciousness home’ relates to Danzy’s memoir. It seems like it may be more appropriate the memoir section, Where Did You Sleep Last Night?

‘Early life and education’

Danzy Senna was born and raised in Boston, Massachusetts, the middle of three children. Her parents are Boston-born poet and novelist Fanny Howe, who is white who is Irish-American, and Afro-Mexican and Black editor Carl Senna. Her grandmother is Irish actress and playwright Mary Manning, who acted for Dublin's Gate Theatre. Senna's work has largely been influenced by her parents' interracial marriage and subsequent divorce in 1976. Growing up, Senna divided her time between her mother and father's homes. In her memoir, she recalls her father being determined "to hammer racial consciousness home to his three light-skinned children.

In the Where Did You Sleep Last Night section:

4. There are two more statements (struck out below) that are inaccurate and not supported by the corresponding NY Times source. Can they be removed?

As a fellow at the New York Public Library's Cullman Center for Scholars and Writers, Senna researched and wrote the autobiographical work, Where Did You Sleep Last Night?: A Personal History (2009). She recounts the story of her parents, who married in 1968. Their marriage was opposed by some family members and friends as the two American writers came from wildly divergent backgrounds. Her mother was a white woman with a blue-blood Bostonian lineage. Her father was a black man, the son of a single mother and an unknown father. When their marriage disintegrated eight years later, one family friend called it "the ugliest divorce in Boston’s history." Decades later, Senna looked back not only at her parents’ divorce, but at the family histories they tried so hard to overcome. Her often painful journey through the past is epitomized by the question posed to her as a young child by her father: "Don’t you know who I am?". In 2010, Danzy's father, Carl Senna, sued Senna for "libel, privacy invasion, fraud, and misappropriation of his name and likeness" in the book and claimed she had misled him in telling him what the book was about in order to get information from him for the work.

Thank you for your time and attention in reviewing these suggested improvements. Best LeepKendall (talk) 18:02, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

References

Hello LeepKendall, thank you for being so clear about your relationship to this article and for your attention to reliable sources. I've taken a look and made some changes, especially to remove the claims which as you note were not sourced. I wasn't able to find a source for the specific birthday which was previously listed in the article, so I have removed it, but if you are able to point me toward a reliable source which includes a more specific birth date I would be happy to re-add it. Let me know if I can help with anything else. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 19:40, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much User:LEvalyn. LeepKendall (talk) 16:44, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi User:LEvalyn. I'm wondering if you can make a few edits to the line about Danzy's parents. I see that Fanny is referred to as 'Boston elite', however that isn't accurate. I know Boston Brahmin does mean that, but it also indicates heritage, which is how it applies to Fanny. It doesn't mention this in the article about Fanny Howe, who was born in Bufflo and raised in Boston. Also, I believe I was the one who suggested the article say "poet and novelist Fanny Howe, who is white, and Black editor Carl Senna." But I didn't realize that not listing them in the same way makes Carl look racialized, if you will. Could this line be edited to say "Her parents are poet and novelist Fanny Howe, who is white, and editor Carl Senna, who is black."

Thank you for your time to review these suggested edit improvements. Best LeepKendall (talk) 18:31, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi LeepKendall, good catch on the lack of parallelism in the treatment of race. I've amended that. For the "Boston Brahmin" thing, I take your point... "Boston elite" is a wikilink to "Boston Brahmin"; I wanted to include that info since multiple sources mention it, but frankly I was euphemizing a bit because I find "Boston Brahmin" a pretty weird name... I moved the Boston Brahmin wikilink to the phrase "blue-blood Boston heritage" (in the summary of the memoir) for now. If there's a particularly good bio/profile of Senna I'd be happy to use it to flesh out that bio section, in general the article strikes me as a bit flimsy every time I look at it. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 01:34, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much User:LEvalyn. LeepKendall (talk) 16:18, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

COI Request - Relevant Article Content

Hello:

The statement below is included in the Caucasia section of the article, but doesn’t seem relevant to the book. I’m wondering if it is relevant to the article overall? It seems a bit like a random piece of information. If it doesn’t seem relevant, can it be removed?

When Senna published Caucasia, her father called to demand a loan.[7]

In the Where Did You Sleep Last Night section, there is this statement:

In 2010, Danzy's father, Carl Senna, sued Senna for "libel, privacy invasion, fraud, and misappropriation of his name and likeness" in the book and claimed she had misled him in telling him what the book was about in order to get information from him for the work.[16]

I’m wondering if this qualifies as balanced content given the lawsuit filing was covered in the press, but the final judgment, with Carl dismissing the entire action in January of 2011 was not. Given only one side of the situation is covered in the article about Danzy Senna, I’m wondering if without the final determination, it may qualify as contentious content? If so, can it be removed? Thank you for your time and attention to these requests. Thank you and best, LeepKendall (talk) 17:14, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi User:LEvalyn: It looks like may be on a Wiki break. You were so generous with your time on the previously proposed edits, I wanted to ask you about this latest round. When you are back and have time, I'd be grateful for your review. Best, LeepKendall (talk) 18:51, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi LeepKendall, I have indeed been dialling back my wiki editing for a bit, and I've also been mulling this over a little. I understand why Senna would would want these statements removed, so I have been thinking about what makes for the best, most informative article. The sourcing is very solid for both lines, since the cited sources are not the only news articles that mention them. I think the first item, about the loan, makes sense to keep largely because of its relationship to the later lawsuit. And the lawsuit was the sole topic of independent coverage, sometimes overshadowing the book itself, and therefore I think needs at least a mention. For both statements, I'm not aware that either has been challenged as unfactual and there are multiple sources for each, so I wouldn't consider them contentious. And the current information seems sufficiently brief and to-the-point that they don't feel WP:UNDUE. So I think it does not make sense to simply remove them. If you'd like to add more information about the outcome of the case, that information can be added through citations to primary sources if any are available (eg court filings). You're also welcome to propose other kinds of edits (eg rewording or adding other context) and to see if other editors have a different opinion. ~ L 🌸 (talk) 00:27, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your thoughtful feedback User:LEvalyn. I see exactly what you are saying and shared with Danzy that this was likely to be the outcome. Given that the two statements aren't related to the content of the book sections they are in, per se, what would you think of moving them to another section, like maybe personal life? She wasn't keen on having a personal life section, but I told her it is part of the standard template for BLP pages, and an editor may add it at some point. I'd appreciate your thoughts on that type of edit for these statements. As always, thank you! LeepKendall (talk) 20:45, 10 April 2022 (UTC)