Talk:Doreen Giuliano

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In regard to combining the article with John Giuca's, I believe it is important to make the distinction that Giuca's Wiki covers the nuances of his conviction in-depth, whereas Giuliano's covers the nuances of her undercover work in-depth. It is also worth noting that Giuliano has been the one in the public eye, appearing on national TV and being featured in print and radio. A feature length film is being made about her life, not John's.

Over the coming weeks this Wikipedia will be expanded extensively to cover her more in-depth. In the meantime, this page is up. While it is true that 2 sections are paraphrased from Giuca's, within the coming month these will be utterly dwarfed by documentation of Giuliano. Please allow time for this as it is not an overnight ordeal, and weigh the separate merits of Giuca's and Giuliano's unique pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PravdaSpiel (talkcontribs) 22:43, 12 March 2012‎ (UTC)

Notability and sourcing[edit]

I've made several substantial WP:RS and WP:BLP-related edits, so I'm leaving a note here. I removed lots of cites that failed reliability and copyright confirmation, as well as unsupported text that often appeared to editorialize sources. This article has also contained a great deal of problems particular to living persons' biographies, which require particularly reliable sources to base content. It currently lacks citations to multiple reliable sources giving its subject substantial coverage, which may indicate a lack of independent encyclopedic notability. Note: coverage of the subject (appearing on TV or speaking to the press) is not the same as the subject speaking about a different topic, even if closely related. See also WP:BLP1E regarding otherwise low-profile individuals who gain attention regarding a particular event, which is not the same as the individual herself. And see WP:NOTNEWSPAPER regarding the enduring notability of particular developments within a larger context. Currently, the following sources appear to cover the subject:

  • "Mother Justice". Vanity Fair. January 2009.  — Problematic for basing substantial objective encyclopedic content because of its tone, for example, about Allo: "I woulda had sex with him if that's what it took," she says. "But the tension was never there. He was never into me." "Friends, just friends," Allo would say when she got too close. It is otherwise reasonably about the subject;
  • "How one US mother went undercover in bid to clear 'killer' son". The Guardian. February 7, 2008.  — This is decent coverage, but revolves around — and quickly devolves into — the murder and trial of John Giuca;
  • Fahim, Kareem (November 29, 2008). "Disguised Mother Woos Juror in Bid to Free Son". New York Times.  — Problematic for the claims about Allo, who is not WP:WELLKNOWN;
  • "No Appeal in Convicted Killer's Mom Woos Juror Case". Gothamist. November 11, 2010.  — Problematic for encyclopedic content because of tone and content, for example: [I]n 2008, Giuca's mom Doreen Giuliano launched an impressive attempt to get the verdict overturned by losing weight and undergoing a sexy makeover to attract a juror who eventually admitted on tape that he shouldn't have been on the jury! Now, Giualino's dream of freeing her son has been shattered, because an Appellate panel rejected Guica's plea for appeal. She said to the Post, "I don't know how I could have thought we could get justice in Brooklyn." The Post reports, "The panel of four judges said that even if the statements of juror Jason Allo that he knew members of Giuca's 'Ghetto Mafia' crew were true, it would not entitle Giuca to a new trial." (Yes, Giuca was allegedly a member of the "Ghetto Mafia.") The Brooklyn DA's office has long maintained that Giuliano's amazing charade — the still-married mother says she would have had sex with Allo, if it would have helped her son — proved nothing and other lawyers were skeptical she'd be able to get the verdict overturned.
  • "Convict's mum tricks juror into dishing the dirt". Sydney Morning Herald. December 5, 2008.  — This is actually an AP story, problematic because it contains lots of statements by the subject and her attorney. It most clearly illustrates that an article wholly about Giuliano accusing Allo is highly problematic, and otherwise we're left with this subject's activities surrounding a separate event.

Regarding Allo, I don't think statements in the sources above would survive WP:BLPCRIME. They accuse someone not WP:WELLKNOWN of wrongdoing, and this case easily implicates criminal consequences. While it might be expected to have mention of Allo in an article solely about this subject, the matter can be summed up accordingly: she "independently investigated what she believed was juror misconduct in her son's murder trial. She produced recordings of the juror admitting he did not disclose his connections to Giuca's clique, which were presented in her son's appeal. The appeal was denied, with judges stating that even if it were true that the juror had such acquaintances, it would not entitle Giuca to a new trial." All of the reasonably reliable sources below could be used in conjunction to support this amount of text at the John Giuca page. It belongs there because of the single event nature of this subject's biographical noteworthiness.

Here's the findsources template, in case it's informative: Find sources: "Doreen Giuliano" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · HighBeam · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · The Wikipedia Library · NYT · WP reference. Cheers! JFHJr () 04:46, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2015[edit]

Doreen Quinn Giuliano is the mother of John Giuca, who in 2003 was wrongfully convicted of the murder of Mark Fisher. Giuliano went undercover to investigate possible juror misconduct in the trial. Because of her activities, Giuliano has been called "Mother Justice."[1] Amygrech (talk) 17:21, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change, just copy-pasted the opening paragraph.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 17:24, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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