|WikiProject Biography / Musicians||(Rated C-class)|
|WikiProject Guitarists||(Rated C-class)|
- 1 Other Discussion
- 2 was vs. is
- 3 Over-all review & comment, April 2006
- 4 Daughter
- 5 General Problem
- 6 Duane and comic book myth
- 7 Peach misqoute
- 8 LSD & "a girl named cher"
- 9 Similar slide gutar players
- 10 Opening paragraph
- 11 Second paragraph: "unusually for the time, based in the Southeastern United States"
- 12 Life Story
- 13 Citation needed
No, I don't think: "universally regarded as one of the greatest of all rock and roll guitarists"
it over the top. Here are a few more opinions, collected in a few minutes from non-personal sites on the web:
- "one of music's all-time greatest slide guitarists"
- "One of rock's most inventive and respected guitarists"
- "Duane Allman is the greatest slide guitar player of all time."
- "nine of the greatest blues/rock guitar heroes that have ever lived: Duane Allman"
I'm trying to get a copy of the Eric Clapton interview discussed on this page, and if (as I expect he will) Clapton says something similar to my characterization, it's going back (although for the sake of peace I'll change "universally" to "generally"), on the grounds that Clapton's views on the matter are probably more signicant than any of ours.
Noel 20:26, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
PS: What's the problem with "tragically"? It's not a tragedy when a talented artist is killed when he's only 24?
Noel 20:30, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
The reason I changed the phrase "universally regarded as one of the greatest of all rock and roll guitarists" because it didn't seem to convey a NPOV (if you haven't read that page yet, I recommend it. Perhaps an alternate way to phrase that might be "he is reagarded by many as one of the greatest of all rock and roll guitarists". As far as "tragically", I removed that because it seemed unnecessary to emphasize that his death at 24 was a tragedy, pedants might bring up th classical meaning of tragedy. If you want to re-insert "tragically", I won't argue. I am not very familiar with Duane Allman, so it would be good if another user with more musical knowledge looked over this page. I felt my edits made it more encyclopedic and less like a fan page, which is how the page struck me.
M123 23:54, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Actually, I did ask some of my friends to proof-read it; one sent in some typos, but had no problem with the content. I have also read the NPOV page several times (it's rather lengthy :-). I cheerfully admit to being a big fan, but not to the extent that my life revolves around Duane specifically. Let me try your wording suggestion.
Noel 00:05, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)
OK, so here are a list of specific editing points we seem to be disagreeing on, with my rationale for each:
- "the famous studio in Muscle Shoals" - There is only one major recording studio there, and it's quite well known in the music world, so "the" is the appropriate article.
- "he insisted on going to see their show" - An eyewitness account of the events, by Tom Dowd (his actual words given here) makes quite a point of saying how emphatic and intent Clapton was about going to go see the show. I am simply recording what participants report.
- "hit it off immediately" - Again, Dowd's eyewitness account (again, his actual words given here) makes a point of saying how intense their connection was even though it was their first meeting, and how well they got on (which is not a given in the world of the arts, as egos can often get in the way). Again, I'm simply passing on what participants saw, and were struck by.
- "with the result that Duane" - The first plan was to just have Duane contribute to one or two tracks; however, the connection between he and Clapton was so powerful that as the session went on he got completely sucked into the project as an equal and full contributor. I picked the wording to try and imply this, but perhaps I should just say it directly, as I don't think the words I selected did a good job here. I'll rework that section to try and improve it.
- "greatest", "best" - When professional critics at major music organs like Rolling Stone say "best", I think it's more than just my personal enthusiasm. I have attempted to take the heat out of this issue by simply finding critics to quote, instead of putting any such words in myself.
- "Tragically" - Rock'n'roll has lost a number of great guitar players at a relatively young age - Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughn, etc - but Duane's loss is, to me, at an even higher level; he was only 24 when he died, with only a handful of recordings to remember him by. We don't even have a video of him doing a concert, whereas for the other two we have several. Yet his brilliance and command of technique were remarkable for one so relatively young - two of the four albums he did are counted among the best rock albums ever! Who knows what we would have seen from him had he lived.
- Duane vs Allman - I refer to him as "Duane" in the text of the page because i) there are two Allmans throughout the page, and in many cases "Allman" would thus be ambiguous; and ii) that's how most people I know refer to him (perhaps because of i). It has been suggested that in any paragraph where Greg is mentioned, we need to use both names, but in a new paragraph we could call him just plain "Allman," since he's the topic of the article. I am not comfortable with this for two reasons. First, I'd much rather be consistent throughout the article - pick one term, and always use that. "Allman" is not viable for that, so the choice would "Duane" or "Duane Allman" - and the latter is clunky. Second, Wikipedia style says you should refer to things using the name commonly used, and that's what I did (although that policy page is about article titles, I simple extended the basic philosophy into the article). When discussing Eric Clapton, people will say "Eric" or "Clapton", but I have never seen a discussion of Duane Allman refer to him as "Allman". I think the advantages of consistency outweigh the degree to which it might sound "fannish".
I think that's all of them. Let me go fix that clunky wording on the start of the collaboration with Clapton. Noel 02:13, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
IMHO, "tragically" still smacks of fandom, but it's certainly within the bounds of debatability (is that a word?) And to my surprise, all those "Duane"s read just fine. - DavidWBrooks 18:35, 22 Mar 2004 (UTC)
was vs. is
Allman is still regarded as one of the greats, even though he's dead, so the opening sentence should say "is" not "was" - since his reputation didn't change with his death. - DavidWBrooks 11:32, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Over-all review & comment, April 2006
I just read this page. Arrived via Google while researching Duane Allman and his death. This seemed like a fine, NPOV, useful and professional job to me. Kudos! Ned 04:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Galadrielle has a bio of her dad out; look for it.
This article turns into a memorial itself after that section. Where's the "legacy" section and "Influences" and such? It has plenty of information, which is awesome, but it should probably follow a bit better with what other artists I've seen have. I'm sure there are guidelines in the Wikiprojects he's related to. - Boss1000 17:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Duane and comic book myth
I was one of Duane's best friends. I spent the summer of '67 crashing on his (and Gregg's) couch in L.A. Never in the five years I knew him did I ever see him, or Gregg, with a comic book. This myth comes from a Rolling Stone hit piece which referred to band members reading comic books. Duane was a serious, well read, political leftest person, the opposite of the "southern hick" that some people make him out to be. For this reason I have edited out the comic book reference in Duane's Wikipedia bio.superstar 02:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I have also edited out the reference to "a two legged peach". This is not on the recorded radio interview but was added as an aside by Capricorn owner Phil Walden in a TV interview.superstar 18:40, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
LSD & "a girl named cher"
At the end of the "Session musician" section of the article, we see: "By this time in his life Allman was experimenting heavily with LSD. He also married a girl named cher. They did acid together. and it was great. they wrote wonderful mellodies comprising of allmans sharp guitar riffs and cher's harmonic vocals." While it wouldn't surprise me to learn that a rock musician was dropping acid in 1969, I've never seen it mentioned before in connection with Allman; and the last sentences in the paragraph, with their spelling/typographical errors, lack of proper capitalization, and amateurish tone, not to mention the false claim that Duane Allman married "a girl named cher," make me think the text I quoted should perhaps be removed. Tstorer 15:15, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Similar slide gutar players
Content on this topic was moved from where it was errantly (and conspicuously) shoehorned into a section on the Hour Glass to near the end of the article adjacent to some exploring his contributions as a guitarist to Rock history. Rightfully, the subject deserves its own subheading there.
Two ersatz citations (to the website of a commercial retro glass slide seller, appearing superficially to support the contentions in the moved copy) were deleted; the first supported none of them, was merely a link to product offering, the second was to a defunct web page (that may or may not have had relevant content that may or may not have been properly cited, irrelevant at this point). An assessment of Allman's influence on the signature sound of "Southern Rock" was added, consistent with a consensus view of his role as principal progentior of the sound and driving force in the evolution of the genre. It deserves citation as well.
As for Dicky Betts' inclusion in the list of players with similar sounds, it is well known that after Duane's death he sought to copy (and succeeded better than anyone ever hoped or imagined) Duane's slide work, note for note in the studio (as on Melissa from Eat a Peach) and as close as he could (while staying faithful to the Band's improvisational lifeblood) in concert (as captured on the Band's Macon City Auditorium 2-11-72 CD) before beginning to define his own distinctive slide guitar sound both in the Band and in his own, Great Southern.
Rather than get in an edit war with each person adding and subtracting nominations for similar players at their whimsy, let's all work towards providing proper citations for the content at issue, as well as the many other sections of the article that beg for it. Rock on. Wikiuser100 (talk) 14:40, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
- Dicky wasn't copying Duane's playing solely post-mortem. On a number of the tracks on At Fillmore East, you can hear dual slide leads where the two are spot-on each other (only not always playing the same note, so in those cases you get a kind of 'slide chord'). They are so close a lot of people don't realize it's two guitars, not one! One of the best examples is on Hot 'Lanta (although there is also some great dual lead slide on In Memory of Elizabeth Reid). Noel (talk) 14:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Opening paragraph states that it "needs citation". (He is best remembered for his brief but influential tenure in that band, expressive slide guitar playing, and formidable improvisational skills.)
What else is he really remembered for? I don't think it needs citation when he was one of the original Allman Bros. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 00:17, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Second paragraph: "unusually for the time, based in the Southeastern United States"
"ABB were formed in 1969 and, unusually for the time, based in the Southeastern United States." Unusual for what exactly? Musicians based out of Nashville/Memphis/Atlanta/New Orleans were unusual for the time? This should be clarified or removed. Chafinsky (talk 20:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
The information given regrading the bands's earliest days is misleading, or erroneous. The band was in Macon somewhat prior to March of 1969; as early as late 1968, IIRC.
- Agreed. Cleaning up the section about the Brothers' first guitar. Wsoper (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
I see someone has plastered a bunch of citation needed tags all over the article, on various quotations. Most of them are from the liner notes to The Allman Brothers Band: Dreams (1989 boxed set), with a few from Duane Allman: An Anthology (1972), but I'm not up to finding them (or figuring out how to do the citations with the new reference system). I should explain that the article long pre-dates the current 'fully sourced' policy, which explains why they weren't added when the article was first done. Noel (talk) 13:52, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Release date of Idlewild South was September 20, 1970 (coincident with John Coltrane's birthday). [There is also a YouTube video from a PBS doc taped on that day.] The drums at the start of Mountain Jam on Eat A Peach are the same as the end of Whipping Post on Live At Fillmore East. That could be just the marvels of editing, though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC) Sorry, it was September 23, 1970 in my unsigned comment above. For cross-reference see the Wikipedia page on Idlewild South. (Is self-referencing confirmation?) Also check the Coltrane Wikipedia page for date, though release coincidence intention is anecdotal. As an aside, came across a DA interview from Nov-70 on Youtube. Wow.