Talk:Elliot Tiber

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Differences between books?

What's the difference between his book "Knock on Woodstock" and "Taking Woodstock"? Or are they the same book but with different titles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.234.170 (talk) 02:51, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From Bethel?

He is in that category but actually he was born in Brooklyn. I guess I'll leave him in the category as I see that Yasgur is too, and he was born outside of Bethel too. He is listed as being "from" Brooklyn too, and I don't see how you can be from two places.

Maybe the name of the category should be changed to "Bethel people" or something like that. Eh? I think I may kick this over to NY project, as this is clearly a wikidilemma. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 00:34, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I've been in touch with Mr. Tiber and his representatives to see if a photo can be obtained for the article. Started reading the book--a heck of a good read, by the way. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 15:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not quite sure what the policy. I think in traditional use the name can apply if somebody lives in some place for a while (and so they can be from several places). Americasroof (talk) 18:53, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Age

OK, nobody but he contributes to the talk page and I'll continue the monologue: how do we know his age? It isn't in Taking Woodstock. If it can't be sourced I'm taking it out.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 15:38, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You're not quite alone. I started the article in October 2008 and kept meaning to come back with info from the autobiography which may have to be taken with a grain of salt. The folks over at Stonewall nuked his account as being inmplausible. In any event thanks for your additions and the request for a birthdate cite. User:Americasroof (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that's very helpful. Do you mean the Stonewall riots discussion page? I'm interested in reading reaction to his account of Stonewall as I am preparing an article on the book. His account of Woodstock is disputed in a crucial detail by the organizer, Michael Lang. I think that we should add how some aspects of the memoir are disputed, as I've noticed that some of his account has been picked up and spread on the Internet. I'm sure that the movie is going to cause that to accelerate. Not that we're a "truth squad" or anything but we do want to be neutral and record all pertinent facts.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion is at Talk:Stonewall riots/Archive 5. The riots article is a "Good Article" and the editors are pretty strict about what they allow to go on it (even with sources) -- strict enough that I avoid the article now. Your item about him not taking Lang to Max Yasgur was pretty intersting. Thanks for trying to contact him. I think before the movie at least he lived at Manhattan Plaza and that he moved to another building in the Hell's Kitchen neighborhood (where I live). But all that may have changed now. Thanks again. Americasroof (talk) 18:51, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've actually corresponded with him and his publicist about getting a photo for this article. He's a nice guy, and his book is a good read. I have no idea who's telling the truth after 40 years. Still, we have to print all the facts. No offense intended toward the gent. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 20:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tiber is not a reliable source

Reading contemporary NY Times accounts of the Festival preparations from July 1969, I'm increasingly uneasy about using Tiber's account as fact, so I've reduced somewhat and attributed his claims to him. He claims to have a permit, yet that isn't mentioned anywhere else, such as in a lengthy New York Times article from July 1969. He claims he introduced Yasgur to the promoters, and the promoters deny that. He apparently said in one place that some performers stayed at his motel, but he left that out of his book. I think that we need to use what he says with caution, as he clearly is not a reliable source on any factual assertion.

His assertions should be left in, but reduced in size and attributed to his account, not stated as fact. Publisher's Weekly called his book as often "improbable," which means they didn't believe it.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 16:34, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think most sources will agree that Tiber contacted Lang and said he had a permit and that's the reason Woodstock came to Bethel. Here's a book and another one. I was started this article after seeing his name in the online history (which I can't find now). Pretty much anything outside of that might be embellished. Americasroof (talk) 16:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually both those links are to the same book. I would not consider that book to be a reliable source on the permit, as it states in the same paragraph that Tiber introduced the developer to Lang, and we know that both Lang AND his partner AND Sam Yasgur AND Miriam Yasgur all dispute that. Obviously Tiber was the source for both the permit and Yasgur claims. He may well have had a permit, but I'd not state in Wikipedia as fact unless corroborated.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 16:49, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, Miriam Yasgur, who is still alive, says that her husband did not know Tiber. That contradicts much of the book, because he says that he and Yasgur were buddies and that Yasgur supported his alleged art endeavors at the motel. Sorry, I just would not accept anything Mr. Tiber says as fact unless a third party source corroborates.--JohnnyB256 (talk) 16:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem extraordinarily odd. Bethel has less than 5,000 people and White Lake has around 600. Common sense would tell you that these folks should know each other -- especially since they ran businesses. Thanks for birding it.Americasroof (talk) 18:08, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

She may be wrong, of course. But the weight of evidence seems to go against Tiber. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 03:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Given that he is not a reliable source, I've changed the lead, which claimed that he had a key role in organizing Woodstock. That is disputed by Lang and others. No idea why I, or anyone, didn't notice this earlier. --JohnnyB256 (talk) 01:24, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But it still seems that the only actual claim he does that is wrong is that he introduced the organizers to Yasgur. That's not exactly "disputing his account", as the article now claims. I haven't read the book, but the movie does not claim that Tiber was involved in the organizing, just that he has a permit, and nobody seems to dispute this. I'm removing the claim that his account has been disputed, as it's just one detail in it. --OpenFuture (talk) 21:40, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would tend to agree with John, many of Tier's claims are disputed. Just becase I lived I say somethin about myself, doesn'take it true. For instance, this article cites his own resume, in which he gives himself the moniker of "Wood stock Daddy". Dubious to say the least. --Tacit tatum (talk) 07:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious and disputed isn't the same thing. We need references to claim it's disputed. --OpenFuture (talk) 08:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

BLP status change

Due to the death of this person, the BLP status of this article has changed. This does not mean that unsourced material that would contravene the Biography of Living Persons rules can be added to this article Capitalistroadster (talk) 03:50, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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