Talk:The Ecologists (France)

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Why translate the name[edit]

I cannot see any reason why the name of this French political party is translated. The party's website does not have an English version and there does not seem to be sources which use a translated name instead of the original name. Matou91 (talk) 17:51, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Most French political party articles translate their name - see Category:Political parties of the French Fifth Republic, so this is consistent with the others. Newystats (talk) 09:19, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

euthanasia vs abortion[edit]

Hey User:Candido, you do know what "euthanasia" means? That's what the nazis did. I am pretty sure this is not meant. The article writer wanted to talk about abortion. Please get your translations right. C-Kobold (talk) 05:01, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello User:C-Kobold. According to Wikipedia itself, euthanasia is "the practice of intentionally ending a life to relieve pain and suffering", while abortion is the intentional ending of a pregnancy. Those are very different concepts.
While the Nazis did practice what they called "euthanasia", it was more of an euphemism for genocide against handicapped people; there was no intention of relieving pain or suffering. Just like Hitler's practice of vegetarianism, it has no place in the modern debate over these movements. Candido (talk) 05:17, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello User:Candido, because there is a "citation needed" note at this position; I think it is better if we delete the relevant sentence completely, which I did. C-Kobold (talk) 14:56, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion for improvement and update[edit]

In the ideology part, the situation of the conflict for the construction of the West coast airport is not up to date. Indeed, the current French Prime minister has announced that the project has been abandoned due to the fact that no accord was found to settle the conflict of interest.

A link to the page of the French political party PS should be added in the first paragraph of the Ideology section.

Subparts in the ideology section should be added, such as one explaining its cooperation with other European green parties and its implication in the European Union. This would give some insight into the international relations of the party (a subpart that is present in the French article of the party) Also, a part explaining the opposition of the party against the current french president E. Macron could be of interest.

In the history part, some information about the 2017 french presidential election should be added.

Moreover, I would like to elaborate on the introductory sentence of the article and be more specific about the different information provided.

Some small information regarding the position of the party on the Coronavirus situation would be interesting because not like all other parties, they promote a complete unity and cooperation of the European Union and community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halton0310fields (talk • contribs) 14:56, 9 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Peer Review[edit]

Great Job for the improvement ideas. Everything is pretty straightforward. As notified in the article, the ideology part should be transformed and more extensively added. Do you already have ideas of names fro the subsections within this party? I would suggest that you also use their historical affiliation (understand political preferences) in France and in the EU (relations with other political parties), to as you said: "give some insight into the international relation". Also, I think that one subsection about their ideology link with the PS could be of interest, which can be directly linked to the one you want to do on "the opposition of the party against the current french president E. Macron could be of interest". What kind of changes do you want to in the introduction section? Perhaps the name of their current incumbent and their political vote share could be straightforward and of good information as an intro. (?) SPMChapel (talk) 08:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)spmchapel[reply]

French: VAgue Verte Europèenne

Peer Review 2[edit]

In general, the ideas you put forward for improving this article are good. Your ideas concerning expanding the sections on the most recent election as well as international relations seem relevant and interesting. I would warn you against adding too much to the introduction. While the one sentence that currently exists is not enough, make sure to not make it too long as this could dilute the information. It might also be relevant to add a bit more context to the merger between the two parties by explaining how they were similar/different prior to the merger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Polscidam20 (talk • contribs) 10:17, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

peer review 3[edit]

Overall, I think your ideas are realizable and relevant (such as the Covid part), which makes for an interesting page. From your talk page, I am getting the impression that you will mostly focus on the "ideology" section and attempt to update it. While I think that is valid, I would suggest also going out of your way to creating an entirely new section. This way, the difference between the versions will be seen immediately. I am not sure if you are planning to do all that you mentioned in your planning but if you are, I think you are on the right track. Good luck! Gabz11 (talk) 12:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Peer Review (CP)[edit]

Halton031fields, your plans for the expansion of this article are thorough. I agree that subheadings could be of use and that the improvement of the introductory sentence is necessary. I do see that one of the main things you would like to change refer to the ideology section and this is good as you are focused on one section and can improve this with quality rather than quantity. Also - well done in considering coronavirus as a current issue to add to this article! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadiaalexandria (talk • contribs) 16:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Political position[edit]

Should we update the political position into the infobox to "Radical left to far-left" or "Radical left". Lsandre (talk) 21:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The political position should be change. The position is (in french) "gauche radicale", a position in french equivalent to a moderate far-left (Radical left wing). Here a source, with a discussion between a journalist and a politologist : https://atlantico.fr/article/decryptage/melenchon-verts-et-gauche-de-la-gauche--echographie-d-un-echec-intellectuel-et-politique-en-gestation. The journalist ask if the party is far-left, and the politologist say that it's radical left. 

  Entre Les Verts qui ne participent pas mais soutiennent le gouvernement, les tensions entre le PC et PG, etc… Le problème de l'extrême gauche réside-t-il dans ses divisions ? Sont-elles conciliables ?
  
  Eddy Fougier : Je ne parlerai pas d'extrême gauche à propos du PC et du PG et encore moins à propos d'Europe Ecologie Les Verts, mais plutôt de gauche radicale.

French journalists used to call the party radical left: 

  Yannick Jadot, entend détacher EELV de son image de parti de la gauche radicale

  les têtes de listes écolos et dirigeants régionaux d'EELV préconisent un regroupement de la +gauche radicale+"

or far-left: 

  Entre Les Verts qui ne participent pas mais soutiennent le gouvernement, les tensions entre le PC et PG, etc… Le problème de l'extrême gauche réside-t-il dans ses divisions ? Sont-elles conciliables ?

  l'extrême gauche poursuit sa dégringolade
  [...]
  Alors que le PS parvient à limiter la casse et pourrait même conserver 6 régions métropolitaines sur 13, le Front de gauche (Parti de gauche et PCF) et affiliés perdent nettement du terrain
  [...]
  les listes uniquement Front de gauche plafonnent à 2,49 %. Si l’on prend en compte les listes d’alliance (avec d’autres formations d’extrême gauche ou EELV), elles arrivent tout juste à dépasser les 4 %
  [...]
  les formations d’extrême gauche sont parties en ordre dispersé pour ces élections. En France métropolitaine, seules trois régions (Corse, Paca et Languedoc-Roussillon-Midi-Pyrénées) ne proposaient qu’une liste à la gauche de la gauche… sans compter les deux listes écologistes qui se sont présentées à chaque fois en Paca et en Languedoc-Roussillon-Midi-Pyrénées.  

   l’écologie politique progresse. Elle se positionne presque toujours à gauche. En France, elle a même été confisquée par l’extrême gauche

   La Fête de l’Huma, théâtre de la division de l’extrême gauche
   [...]
   La constitution de listes communes PCF-PG-EELV pose problème. Dans les 13 nouvelles "super-régions", les négociations sont tendues.

directly or by association.


Lsandre (talk) 21:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Lsandre: what is your brief and neutral statement? At over 3,500 bytes, the statement above (from the {{rfc}} tag to the next timestamp) is far too long for Legobot (talk · contribs) to handle, and so it is not being shown correctly at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Politics, government, and law. The RfC may also not be publicised through WP:FRS until a shorter statement is provided. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:26, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64: Should we update the political position into the infobox to "Radical left to far-left" or "Radical left". Lsandre (talk) 21:41, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Then it needs to follow the {{rfc}} directly: Legobot won't look for it way down here. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:37, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose None of those sources describe the party as far-left. --Vacant0 (talk) 11:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Far-left (fr=extrême gauche)
    • Into the article from atlantico.fr, the journalist clarly said that "Les Verts" (Europe Ecology – The Greens), PC and PG are "l'extrême gauche" (the far-left)
    • Into the article from 20minutes.fr, the title is "[...] l'extrême gauche poursuit sa dégringolade" ([...] the far-left continue to fall), the article talk about the coalition "Front de gauche" (Parti de gauche, PCF and some other parties), EELV/écologistes (Europe Ecology – The Greens, and some other parties) and other far-left parties (far-left independants, NPA, LO, ...). This coalition made rarely more than 5% (less than 2,49 % without EELV), falling down more than the PS. The journalist use alternativly "extrême gauche" (far-left) or "gauche de la gauche" (left of the left). Into the article we have a link to another article "les formations d’extrême gauche sont parties en ordre dispersé pour ces élections" (the far left formations exploded for these elections) talking about the multiple formations of PCF, Front de gauche, Parti de gauche, Europe Ecologie-Les Verts/écologistes (Europe Ecology – The Greens) and others parties.
    • Into the article from opinio-internationale.com, the journalist said that in France the ecology politics (Europe Ecology – The Greens) have been confiscated by the "extrême gauche" (far-left).
    • Into the article from europe1.fr, the title is "La Fête de l’Huma, théâtre de la division de l’extrême gauche" (La Fête de l'Huma, where the far-left show its divisions) and talking about the difficulty to find an agreement between PCF, PG and EELV (Europe Ecology – The Greens).
    • Into the article from rtl.fr, it's less clear, it's more by association, here the article talk about the "alliance d'extrême gauche" (alliance from far-left) or "une gauche plus radicale" (a more radicale left) where the party EELV (Europe Ecology – The Greens) go.
    Radical left (moderate far-left, fr=gauche radicale)
    • Into the article from atlantico.fr, the politologist clarly said that PC, PG and "Europe Ecologie Les Verts" (Europe Ecology – The Greens) are "de gauche radicale" (from radical left)
    • Into the article from marianne.net, the journalist said that EELV (Europe Ecology – The Greens) have an "image de parti de la gauche radicale" (is viewed like radical left)
    • Into the article from challenges.fr, the journalist said that EELV members want a coalition "de la +gauche radicale+" (from the radical left)
    The sources describe clarly as far-left or radical-left, and a politologist into one of the source describe the party as radical-left. Some article are less direct than others but it is clear in a lot of those sources. Lsandre (talk) 12:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't looked into these sources yet but just from a glance at least one is clearly an opinion piece, so violates WP:RSOPINION in this context. WP:SYNTH should also be followed. We don't typically use the term "radical" in infoboxes either for the left or right. We typically stick to: far-left, left-wing, centre-left, centre, centre-right, right-wing and far-right. Helper201 (talk) 11:34, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
About the WP:RSOPINION
  • You have effectively the source from opinion-internationale.com, which is opinion piece.
After, it's difficult, because you can say that all articles are opinion and all interview of expert are opinion, you have by example:
  • the first source from atlantico.fr, which is an interview from a journalist to a politologist, where the journalist asks if "EELV and others, the far-left do something?" and the politologist answers "I don't call EELV and others far-left, but radical left. But yes they do something...".
All other sources are standard articles.

For the WP:SYNTH, I don't mix two sources, each one said EELV is far-left or EELV is radical left.
The interview of the politologist in atlantico.fr and the articles from marianne.net, challenges.fr and europe1.fr are clear.
The only point where we could eventually talk about original research is in the others two sources 20minutes.fr and rtl.fr, which are less direct, but not to the point to talk about original research from my point of view.

So depending if the interview of a politologist is considered as a reliable source or not, you have:
  • For far-left : one article from europe1.fr
  • For radical left : two articles from marianne.net and challenges.fr. And an interview of a politologist (politic science expert), Eddy Fougier, specialist of the french left and alter-globalization, in atlantico.fr.

About the "radical left", I know that it's not used out of some european country. Normally it correspond to the "far-left", it's a term to talk about moderate far left, the one not violent, terrorist and revolutionary, which participate to the standard politics. I propose to use "radical left" because in France the difference is asked. I you check for the french page of "La France Insoumise", "Parti Communist Français", "Parti de Gauche" and "EELV", it's generally "far-left to radical left" but if we don't use "radical left" it will be "far-left". Lsandre (talk) 17:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 October 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 21:05, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Europe Ecology – The Greens → The Ecologists (France) – new name Panam2014 (talk) 19:26, 14 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:04, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: No comments and I couldn’t find any sources to support a change. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:04, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject France has been notified of this discussion. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 20:05, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. I've found a news ref for the name change and added it to the article. Newystats (talk) 03:31, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. The party has changed its name (
https://lesecologistes.fr )- so should the article. Couldn't think of anything against that. CarolingianCitizen (talk) 23:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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