Talk:Fałszywka

Needs ref for definition

I've removed this ref. It was an essay, authors reliability is dubious, language was non-neutral (attacks on "pseudo-historians" from IPN), and the worst case is, the source totally did not support the claim that "Fałszywka a popular Polish socio-political term describing counterfeit top secret files and fake police reports produced by the Communist secret service in the People's Republic of Poland." At best, it may confirm that it is a term used to describe such items, but it most certainly did not make any claims about popularity, and about this being a "socio-political term". A better ref can be found, I think [1] for example defines it, through I haven't read the full definition, just a snippet, and it references SWJP (which I think stands for Slownik Wspolczesnego Jezyka Polskiego). Also, I found at least one source using this term in the context of non-communist Poland ([2]). Overall I think the article correctly describes a notable phenomenon, but care must be taken to use good references (a good reference may be [3]). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:53, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

The Polish online dictionaries supposedly featuring the definition of Fałszywka require paid subscription... I tried, no can do. The actual word has become so incredibly popular in recent years that now absolutely anything (from a crappy poster to a bootlegged CD) is a "fałszywka" in people's minds. When I was in Poland however, the noun wasn't used at all. I myself didn't even know it existed. Please let me know if there are any other places we can access to look for anything better than what we already have. Poeticbent talk 19:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

You need to show first that writers have connected these cases, for example, creating and releasing fake files about Walesa and the attempted murder of the Pope, and define it as a topic. In order to do that you need to present a source that talks about both these examples and others in the same article. If such sources exist then they should form the core of the article.

Having done that, you need to find a name for the topic. When I search "Fałszywka" in Polish-English dictionaries, I find it means "fake", and there is no reference to a political meaning. When I search on Google, I find stories about counterfeit money and other non-political criminal activity. I could not find any English language sources that mention the term.

It may be that the sources that establish the notability and name of the topic exist. But I do not see how we can have an article if they cannot be found. If they exist but you cannot access them, could you at least identify them. Other editors may have access to them, or it may be possible to order them through a library.

The lack of sources create a neutrality problem. We are stating that Polish intelligence had a pattern of misconduct without attribution. If we had the sources then we could establish the degree to which this theory is accepted, i.e., is it a consensus, majority, mainstream minority or fringe view.

TFD (talk) 15:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Please note that the Google search is useless in this particular case without supplementary phrases like the "IPN" for example. Apparently the term became a catch-phrase synonymous with virtually anything. For me the term fałszywka links all selected examples, because most authors listed in references use it word-for-word in this particular context. The only thing which I find difficult to establish right now (based on sources available to me) is: when exactly was it used originally to describe the counterfeit top secret files and fake police reports. A slew of Polish intellectuals used the term fałszywka in their 2004 open letter to the media, describing politically-motivated slander by the SB security police. The letter was published in Rzeczpospolita (newspaper) and signed by the following: prof. Jerzy Buzek, Tadeusz Mazowiecki, Jan Nowak-Jeziorański, prof. Władysław Bartoszewski, prof. Andrzej Zoll, apb Józef Życiński, Andrzej Wajda, prof. Barbara Skarga, prof. Jan Miodek, prof. Jerzy Zdrada, Aleksander Hall, Władysław Frasyniuk, prof. Adam Galos, Krystyna Zachwatowicz... among others (copy-pasted from here)

I'm afraid, it would not be possible to prove everything at this time based on any one single source, mainly because of how current and hotly debated the whole subject is right now across Poland. Poeticbent talk 18:41, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Question

Why is there not a Polish WP page on the topic (I just checked - in case it had not been linked up). Jackiespeel (talk) 10:28, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

There is "mistyfikacja".

However, the current form of the article is wrong. I have removed the most blatant non-RSes for starters.

Zezen (talk) 07:00, 16 September 2020 (UTC)