Talk:Federation for American Immigration Reform

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Removal of "Mission" section

Per the reasoning given at WP:MISSION, I have removed the part of the "Mission" section of the article which was sourced only to PRIMARY sources from FAIR itself. The use of PRIMARY sources is discouraged, especially when they are likely to be biased.

The remaining material from the "Mission" section -- which was mistakenly placed there -- has been integrated into the "History" section. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:09, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Reception section

How were points chosen for this section? Is it impossible to find positive reception for this organization? The only comments given are negative. This adds to the bias of this article. Gurbuster (talk) 10:06, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is the editor's first and only edit to Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:40, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Does that disqualify me from questioning the quality of the article or suggesting a way it might be improved? Gurbuster (talk) 11:34, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it pretty much does, because it looks as if you created the account simply to make this complaint, which means you came into this with a predisposition to find the article biased because of your own political beliefs. In other words, you are not approaching it from a WP:NPOV. We are under no obligation to consider the views of biased commenters here simply to troll us. Beyond My Ken (talk) 12:13, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion would be to find some other, more mundane articles and get your start improving them. And for that, just start by closely reading articles on topics that you're interested in. For example, say if you're into cooking and cuisine, just look into various articles on different dishes, condiments, spices, herbs, etc. and have fun reading. Just read, read, read about whatever hobbies you're interested in. While you read, if you notice any spelling or grammatical errors, go ahead and fix them, making sure to add appropriate edit summaries when you do. If you have information that you could add yourself, go ahead and help out by adding it, preferably while adding a reliable source. There are a lot of pages on this website which need a lot of help. The goal should be to build an encyclopedia.

But it doesn't really look good if you come in here and, for your very first series of edits, focus only on supposed bias on an article about an anti-immigration group, one with a fairly extreme position even among American conservatism, at that. If that's the only thing you're here for, then you become a single-purpose account with an obvious goal for advocating a particular point of view, rather than merely building an encyclopedia. BirdValiant (talk) 13:26, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disinformation

The text that says that FAIR is a white supremacist hate group is a lie. This is woke leftist disinformation. The SPLC is as horrible of a biased unreliable source as you can get. This part of the article has been removed hundreds of times. How many times do people have to delete it to get it to go away. I get the feeling that this is an article about the SPLC. Who cares what they say? This is a fine example of why people think that Wikipedia articles are complete crap. 2600:1702:B20:3040:D4F0:AC5D:4089:D9D8 (talk) 16:40, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The SPLC has been examined a number of times by Wikipedia editors, and has found to be a reliable source. Unfortunately, your view of it is simply your personal point of view and is not supported by the known facts. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:49, 26 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The SPLC has a long history of lying. Not a single person aside from someone on the far-left would unironically believe that the SPLC is reliable. 2600:1003:B031:43A:9BD8:B32:616A:F6BB (talk) 18:46, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Organization classification

This organization is not an "anti-immigration organization" and it seems misleading to readers to represent them as such. On their website fairus.org they clearly state that they are a non profit advocacy group who advocate for US immigration system reform, meaning that they support legal immigration and oppose illegal immigration. I am hoping we can reach some kind of agreement on this because all i would like is for the local description on the basic information page to be changed from "Anti-Immigration Organization" to either "Non-profit" or 'Advocacy Organization" since they are technically not an anti-immigration organization. Thanks- Fred Fred12344 (talk) 14:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From their "About Us" page: FAIR seeks to reduce overall immigration

What is not "anti-immigration" about reducing immigration? That edit was blatant whitewashing.

Independent of that, Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not on PR texts on the web pages of dubious organizations. Those can be used, but have to be handled with care.

RS call them anti-immigration, so, that is that. --Hob Gadling (talk) 14:35, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Hob-

"Reducing immigration" and eliminating immigration all together are actually 2 very different things which is why i have an issue with the current classification. Reducing immigration means only allowing those who come to this country legally, overall yes this would reduce immigration as a whole since illegal immigrants would be deterred from coming. The definition of "anti-immigration" is "opposed to immigrants or immigration : characterized by or expressing opposition to or hostility toward immigrants". This definition directly contradicts FAIRs mission of limiting immigration to 300,000 people annually. https://www.fairus.org/press-releases/new-report-explosive-growth-limited-english-proficient-students-costing-tens Fred12344 (talk) 14:56, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It also seems clear to me that you are letting your personal point of view interfere with your decision making on this issue by referring to it as a "dubious organization" I also do not appreciate being accused of "white washing" when I was attempting to make a simply change to improve the accuracy of the page Fred12344 (talk) 15:19, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At the end of the day, Wikipedia cares more about how subjects are described by independent reliable sources than how they describe themselves. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 14:52, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well legally this organization is a tax exempt non profit so i am unsure why it wouldn't be classified as such? Fred12344 (talk) 15:11, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

? It is. "Non-profit" is literally the first descriptor, and in the infobox it says "Non-profit tax exempt". ?? — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:28, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform&action=info Under Basic information under local description is what i am referencing Fred12344 (talk) 15:31, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ah the "short description". I've updated it. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Going back to my original issue this is not a "anti immigration organization" it is simply a "non profit" which is why originally i was asking if "anti-immigration organization" could be replaced by "non-profit" since that is what it is thank you for partially updating- fred Fred12344 (talk) 15:55, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's not an adequate summary. Any nonprofit organization that's currently just described as "nonprofit organization" needs to have their description revised. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 16:17, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

would "Non-Profit Advocacy Organization" be an adequate summary? Fred12344 (talk) 16:19, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

or "Anti Illegal Immigration Non-Profit" , "Conservative US Immigration Reform Non-Profit" ? Fred12344 (talk) 16:50, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Final Suggestion:

Local Description: "American Non-Profit Immigration Policy Organization"

Central Description: "American nonprofit legal advocacy organization specializing in US Immigration litigation"

thoughts? Fred12344 (talk) 17:10, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Poisoning the Well

By presenting adverse information (the SPLC whining about FAIR) at the beginning, this page displays the intention to ridicule and discredit the movement. This violates NPOV and it should be moved somewhere down the page or removed from the page itself. 2600:1003:B031:43A:9BD8:B32:616A:F6BB (talk) 18:44, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]