Talk:Flagstaff Hill incident

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Confusion[edit]

The article says that the Garda checkpoint was on Flagstaff Road in the townland of Cornamucklagh, ROI. Cornamucklagh is indeed in the ROI. However—acording to Google Maps—Flagstaff Road ends in NI about 1 kilometer from the border, wher it becomes Ferryhill Road. Is this a mistake by Google Maps or by those who reportd the incident?

Acording to these maps by Ordnance Survey Ireland, Flagstaff Hill is also in NI, about 1 kilometer from the border (it can be seen by clicking "wind report" on the right and then zooming-in). If Lawson and Ligari wer driving to Flagstaff Hill, how did they come to be stopt at the Garda checkpoint? Wer they traveling from the ROI into NI (toward Flagstaff Hill) or from NI into the ROI (away from Flagstaff Hill)?
~Asarlaí 01:38, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is a typical case of WP:VERIFY as opposed to the 'truth'. Raymond Murray's book clearly asserts that the SAS team was travelling "on the little road known as the Flagstaff road which runs from the Newry-Dundalk Road down to Omeath.", a statement that certainly contains a number of inaccuracies. If we put this on the map, as you wisely did, we find that 1) Flagstaff road indeed ends 1 kilometer north of the border and 2) Nor Flagstaff road, neither Ferryhill road runs "down to Omeath", as the author firmly mantains. Murray's disorientation is apparently repeated by other cited sources, like Kevin Mulligan, who claims that the Garda checkpoint was "at Flagstaff on an unapproved road which overlooked Omeath." He fell short of giving us the actual road's name. Barry McCaffrey instead leaves no doubt to the reader: "At 10.40pm on May 5 1976 SAS soldiers Illisoni Ligairi and John Lawson were stopped at an Irish army/Garda checkpoint on the Flagstaff Road between Newry and Omeath." Unfortunately, we cannot fix the mistake by citing a primary source like Google maps or OSI maps per WP:NOR. It's for the reader to verify by himself the sources' error by using Wikimapia's link.
As for the location of Flagstaff Hill, I've already fixed the narrative by adding the direction of Ligari's car. They were driving from Bessbrook Mill, and what become apparent is that they missed Flagstaff Hill inside NI (site of the British OP) by 1 km and crossed inadvertently into the Republic.--Darius (talk) 18:53, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for clearing that up. Would it be possible to note this in the article? (that Flagstaff Hill is in the North and that the soldiers seemingly missed their turnoff). ~Asarlaí 14:13, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Asarlaí, we can't advance any conclusions that don't rely on reliable sources, and all we know for real about the SAS members intentions is from their own statements, which are vague or contradictory. As for the sources, author Toby Harnden contradicts Peter Taylor; Harnden states that the men were on their way to relief an OP on Flagstaff, while per Taylor the post was on the southern side of the border. However, I guess that the simple clarification that Flagstaff hill is inside NI would be enough to the reader. Cheers.--Darius (talk) 12:29, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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