Talk:Fort Bliss

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Article milestones
Date Process Result
September 25, 2006 Peer review Reviewed
October 1, 2006 WikiProject A-class review Not approved
October 30, 2006 WikiProject peer review Reviewed

Copied from Fort Bliss talk page[edit]

Contributions[edit]

Sorry I couldn't contribute more, but i live in El Paso, so I will See what I can do about getting information on Fort Bliss. -Noname, 8-4-04

Metric units[edit]

I notice that the addition of metric units was reverted. Note that the Wikipedia Manual of Style says :

  • "If using American or Imperial units, give the metric equivalent as a courtesy."

I have put the metric units back. If anyone (e.g. Gary D if you are reading this), thinks that metric units should not be provided for other readers, then it might be an idea to discuss it at the Manual of Style. Trying to help. Bobblewik  (talk) 23:33, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Armored unit move[edit]

I'm not sure where to include this in the article, but it was annouced a few weeks ago that the army would be transferring an armored unit to Fort Bliss sometime in the next year or two. It will bring an addition 6,000 troops to the base, which will have a drastic effect on El Paso's economy. TomStar81

Base Realignment and Closure[edit]

According to KVIA ABC-7 News (El Paso, TX), Fort Bliss is slated to gain just over 11,000 troops if the proposed Base Realignment and Closure model is approved by President George W. Bush. Fort Bliss would lose its Air Defense Artillery units (mostly Patriot Missile equipment) and the Air Defense Artillery School, which would be moved to Fort Sill, Oklahoma. TomStar81 05:13, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

  • AND IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER!!!!!!!! The army has upped the number of people it will send to Fort Bliss under a new a plan, which would bring the total number of troops coming into Fort Bliss from 11,500 to 20,000!! AWESOME!!!!! TomStar81 04:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
  • yea, but as a soldier stations at Fort Bliss, I have to add that we will be getting a new brigade that will do test & eval. If your MOS is 14 series, you can now escape Texas. 11B's will now know the pleasure-yea that's it of El Paso..... On a serious note.. where is the Article on WBAMC? On Tobin Wells? 11th brigade is staying, 1-1 is in Japan, 31st is moving to Fort Sill. Anybody read the Monitor? 72.178.14.93 07:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Occasionally, when I scoot over to WBAMC, I will see if I can find the Moniter to scope out base news. What I am interested in mostly is the upgunned base security measures, which seem to increase everytime I look around. I was also checking for info on the bomb scare a few weeks back, that shook me up. TomStar81 (Talk) 00:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was MOVED AS REQUESTED PER CONSENSUS -GTBacchus(talk) 16:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

Fort Bliss, Texas → Fort Bliss – Unto my experience that United States Army has nevered used "Fort, X, Y" as a way of naming a base, its has always just been "Fort X". To that end I would like the article transfered back to its original page, both to reflect on the correct name of the base and to help bring the article in line the other US Fort articles here on Wikipedia

Survey[edit]

  • Nominate and Support TomStar81 03:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Support--Nobunaga24 05:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Support name is unambiguous. The "Texas" is unnecessary. --Polaron | Talk 05:15, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Support After all there is no Fort Bliss, Arizona or Fort Bliss, Florida or any other Fort Bliss. So Texas is unnecessary. Encyclopaedia Editing Dude 08:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Support It's a military base. The demographics can be put in a section called "Fort Bliss, Texas", or spun off to a separate page. —wwoods 20:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

While this is a military installation, it is also a census-designated place so it falls under the city naming guidelines. You are probably going to get a lot of opposition saying that using "Fort Bliss" alone, while unambiguous is against the guideline. Good luck in your efforts though. --Polaron | Talk 05:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I brought this up in the Military Hostory wikiproject because it is outside what would be considered the correct name. In lew of this I may ask that we (by which I mean the military history wikiproject) adopt our own naming conventions for these instalations. TomStar81 07:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
The solution is to have a separate article for the census-designated place, which should be called Fort Bliss, Texas (and make clear whether the CDP includes anything outside the fort). This will be a stub, and probably will always be a stub. Septentrionalis 18:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
A seperate article is probably not needed; a section would be fine. Even though they are census designated places, military bases are a little bit different in that 1) 100% of the population is temporary - between two different census, it's almost guaranteed the population has turned over completely. 2) The population of the CDP grows/shrinks only according to how much Congress/DoD permits (i.e. base expansion/base closure, moving units) 3) "residents" of military posts retain their residency in their home state - you may be stationed at Fort Bliss, but if you are from New York, you pay New York tax, have a New York driver's license, New York license plates, etc etc. I think maintaining two seperate articles would be overly complicated, and might lead to linking to the wrong one. I doubt too many people who are going to search for a military post will be looking for the CDP specifically.--Nobunaga24 22:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Section names[edit]

WP:MOS indicates that re-use of article names in names of individual sections is to be avoided. Several sections commence with Fort Bliss or Base which is redundant (eg, Base Closure... could simply be Closure )Garrie 03:15, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Base Closure and Realignemnt is a proper noun, refer to a specific process; therefore I do not think it apropriete to reduce the name (although abreviating it as BRAC would be exceptable). TomStar81 (Talk) 10:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Introduction[edit]

Consider moving some paragraphs from the introductory section to a new section - /*Location*/ or /*Geography*/ perhaps (the second would allow discussion of the geography of the base which significantly impacts on any millitary planning of activities conducted at that location)Garrie 03:17, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The Replica[edit]

The Replica of old Fort Bliss was constructed after the 100th anniversary of the post. I propose adding pictures of the replica, which sits next to the Parade Ground, in a gallery section. It serves as a museum of the post and has itself existed for 50 years. Is this proposal OK with other editors? --Ancheta Wis (talk) 12:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Polo field[edit]

Polo field at Fort Bliss

Here is a photo of the polo field at Fort Bliss. I wanted to convey the solidity and sound construction of the 1890s buildings. To the right of the image are officer's quarters, to the left of the image are NCO quarters; Pershing Drive is the street in the foreground. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 10:07, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

German Air Force Air Defense Center[edit]

I wonder if it is of interest to include the German Air Force Air Defense Center at Fort Bliss. Germany leases the land from the US, in a similar manner as the US does in Germany. The center serves as the Command for all German forces in the US and Canada. Physically, the buildings are next to the Buffalo Soldier memorial on post. Adjacent, there is also an El Paso Deutschschule (El Paso German elementary school) and a church with Lutheran-style steeple. High-school-age students attend school in Germany. Each September, the German personnel sponsor an Oktoberfest, the proceeds benefiting charities of El Paso and Juàrez. The German families are also staunch supporters of the arts and music of El Paso.

Each November, the WWII German POWs are memorialized by the German personnel. Fort Bliss National Cemetery holds the remains for soldiers of other nationalities who died on post. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 12:07, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

CDP[edit]

I separated the redirect from Talk:Fort Bliss, Texas to its own discussion page because the afd for Fort Bliss, Texas was getting stuffed onto this talk page. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 22:59, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Doniphan sentence needs work; Schools table needs work[edit]

The following sentence is misleading: "In 1846, Colonel Alexander Doniphan led 1st Regiment of Missouri mounted volunteers through El Paso del Norte enroute to victories at the Battle of El Brazito and the Battle of the Sacramento." It implies that the Battle of El Brazito occurred after going thru El Paso. But Las Cruces is north of El Paso.

The Chapin entry is misleading; Chapin is definitely on government property, and Bliss Elementary is also on post; thus the notation about the web pages not mentioning this fact is not germane. This is a case of some things being true without being mentioned on a web page. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 11:59, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Added a citation for Chapin High, Colin Powell, Bliss, Milam and Logan as EPISD schools which are built on federal property. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 01:04, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Beautiful picture[edit]

I just wanted to comment on the beautiful picture that posted directly next to the "Fort Bliss Today" section.

Strategic location on the Mexican frontier[edit]

I have found a citation for William Tecumseh Sherman's 1882 recommendation of Fort Bliss over Fort Selden. (Sherman was Commanding General of the United States Army, 8 March 1869 - 1 November 1883.) Anyone who has visited Fort Selden recently knows that its adobe buildings have crumbled back into desert; this could have been the fate of Fort Bliss, since Sheridan favored Fort Selden. However, the Indian Wars were just over, and Fort Selden was no longer a hot spot. In Sherman's words (1882) after a visit to El Paso, "For a hundred years we have been sweeping across the continent with a skirmish line, building a post here, and another there, to be abandoned the next year for another line, and so on. Now that we are across [the continent] and have railroads everywhere, the whole problem is changed." After the railroads had entered El Paso in 1881, and 5 trunk rail lines converged on El Paso, El Paso was then the most important location on the Mexican frontier, according to General John Schofield's 1890 testimony to Congress. -- Perry D. Jamieson (1993), A survey history of Fort Bliss (1890-1940), p.11 of 74. History has borne out Sherman's judgement. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 20:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

The War on Terror[edit]

"Since the September 11, 2001 attacks, Fort Bliss has provided ADA Battalions for US and NATO use in Afghanistan and Iraq". Is this really true? The boys from Texas where in the middle east on the 11th? Sources please. 173.184.19.18 (talk) 09:52, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you; copyedited this section. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 13:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

The article is outdated, in that the Air Defense School has basically moved to Fort Sill. Even the German Air Force has graduated its last class in Air Defense, is moving to Fort Sill as well, and is giving the last cohort operational training at its Fort Bliss location.

A huge building project in East Fort Bliss is in the midst of construction, the formerly deserted area between the airport and the Hueco Mountains, on what will be one of the most modern facilities in the Army. William Beaumont Army Medical Center is also affected. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 13:25, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Housing Areas[edit]

I notice that there is absolutely no reference to base housing areas. I'd like to add this info to the article, but where to place it is the question. Under demographics, or in a sidebar box like the schools? Any ideas? I also have a few great pics of lower Logan that I shot on my trip back there last year... Edit Centric (talk) 00:10, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

A sidebar or separate section would work because First Armored Division might also be treated in a uniform, analogous way. Fort Bliss appears to be a forward-looking test bed for all the new ideas about the Army, such as the desalination plant, the Army Evaluation Task Force and 5th Brigade Combat Team of the First Armored Division, the civilian-sponsored USOs, the Warrior Transition Battalions, the Family Readiness Groups, the Post Runs (it would be great to have a picture of one), the Freedom Crossing update to the PX and so forth. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 00:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I was thinking of some kind of encyclopedic prose, something to the effect of "Fort Bliss provides several housing areas...", or "Service members with families are served by several on and off-post housing areas..." I'm still toying around with the wording, but I already have source material waiting in the wings. Edit Centric (talk) 05:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Merger proposal[edit]

I propose that Fort Bliss shooting be merged into Fort Bliss. I think that the content in the Fort Bliss shooting article can easily be explained in the context of Fort Bliss, and the Fort Bliss article is of a reasonable size in which the merging of Fort Bliss shooting will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Deatonjr (talk) 06:36, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Under what section might the shooting incident lie? --Ancheta Wis (talk) 10:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

U.S. Liberation of Afghanistan ???[edit]

The author is obviously having a laugh. Should be U.S. invasion of Afghanistan (and that's putting it mildly). It's also doubtful if the September 11 "attacks" were anything more than an excuse for plans in place long before. 94.21.69.227 (talk) 10:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

InterWiki[edit]

Is it wrong? This article in English is about military but other ones in other languages are about city. Alphama (talk) 05:42, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Do you have an example which talks about the CDP instead of the military installation? --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 07:09, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Fort Bliss, New Mexico.[edit]

True, Fort Bliss's military reservation currently lies in two states, New Mexico and Texas. But in the encyclopedia, there are sentences which imply that Fort Bliss has been in Texas since its founding. However, the War department order which authorizes Fort Bliss (centenary stamp celebrating Nov 1848) would have been for The Post opposite El Paso (meaning across the river from Juarez, which was not renamed until 1888), in the territory of New Mexico. It was not until the Compromise of 1850 that Texas would have been named as the location of Fort Bliss. Before that, the Mexican Cession (1848), the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (Feb 2, 1848), and the Gadsden Purchase (1852) were the relevant events. To illustrate this, there was a time (1836), before gold was discovered in California, when the Nueces River, not the Rio Grande, was the mooted border between Texas and Mexico.

El Paso, Juarez, and the rest of New Mexico have an intertwined history. The first bridge joining El Paso and Juarez was built in the eighteenth century from wood coming (likely by oxcart) from Santa Fe, NM.

The railroads have had a strategic impact on American military history, because General Sherman's 1882 re-appraisal of El Paso as the single most strategic location on the southwestern border of the US, trumping his previous selection of Fort Selden, which was the favored location before El Paso, before the end of the Indian wars. This is already in the citations. Sherman's 1884 estimate of the manpower needed to hold the territory of the United States remains remarkably similar to the current manpower estimates needed by the Army's management today.(Jamieson 1993, p.2) By 1890, General Schofield would recommend El Paso and Fort Bliss as the location of a permanent post.

I propose crafting a sentence for the NM location. That is, Fort Bliss & El Paso's location was strategic before El Paso was in Texas. --Ancheta Wis   (talk | contribs) 03:38, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

CDP[edit]

The acronym CDP appeared twice in the article, after being defined near the top. The two usages were very far from the definition, one in a photo caption, and one in the text. I converted them both back to "census designated place" because many readers may not remember what it means, and in the photo gallery for the article there is no possibility of seeing the definition. Nick Beeson (talk) 13:00, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

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