Talk:Fred J. Wiseman

A fact from Fred J. Wiseman appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 8 December 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Fred J. Wiseman (pictured) delivered the world's first unofficial airmail flight by airplane?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Fred. J. Wiseman.

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Subject[edit]

Fred Wiseman came up during the my research for the August Schilling page. The subject is interesting and is sufficiently covered by reputable sources. Feel free to contribute. Please use this Talk page if you have questions. Best regards, Darwin Naz (talk) 23:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 16:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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Fred J. Wiseman

... that Fred J. Wiseman (pictured) delivered the world's first airmail by airplane? Source: "The first unofficial airmail flight... was made by Fred Wiseman from Petaluma to Santa Rosa, Calif., in a 12-minute flight on 17 February 1911." Robertson, Patrick (2011-11-11). Robertson's Book of Firsts: Who Did What for the First Time. Bloomsbury Publishing USA. ISBN 978-1-60819-738-5.
- ALT1: ... that Fred J. Wiseman (pictured) delivered the world's first known airmail flight by airplane? Source: Same as above and also this reference.
- ALT2: ... that Fred J. Wiseman (pictured) delivered the world's first unofficial airmail flight by airplane? Source: Same as above
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Hamilton Grange National Memorial

Created by Darwin Naz (talk). Self-nominated at 23:28, 21 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Fred. J. Wiseman; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Article was expanded more than 5x and nominated for DYK on due time. It is long enough, neutral and BLP-compliant. It cites sources inline. "Earwig's Copyvio Detector" reports a few text similarities and comments "violation unlikely". The hook, I prefer ALT2, is well-formatted and interesting. Its length is within limit. The cited sources for accuracy are offline. The image is included in the article, and is ©-free. QPQ was done. Good to go by AGF. CeeGee 12:25, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, CeeGee! Best regards, Darwin Naz (talk) 00:41, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @CeeGee and Darwin Naz: Firsts have been problematic in the past - especially a worldwide first. I see a source for "first unofficial". I can't help but wonder if homing pigeon's were an early form of airmail. Or hot air balloons. It is something that may require more research so that it does not get questioned going forward. Bruxton (talk) 16:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CeeGee and Darwin Naz: my pings Bruxton (talk) 16:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Bruxton: Hi. Certainly, there were airmails delivered by hot air ballons and they were mentioned in some sources I was able to read. That is why it is indicated in the alternative hooks that the delivery was "by airplane". Darwin Naz (talk) 16:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@CeeGee and Darwin Naz: Thanks for that, my mistake on the different airmail delivery systems. We can give it a go with ALT2.

Bruxton (talk) 16:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thank you! Darwin Naz (talk) 23:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from New Page Review process[edit]

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Great article.

scope_creep^Talk 07:38, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First airmail[edit]

In this article it is written "It was officially sanctioned by the U.S. Postal Service." Does this mean that Fred J. Wiseman's flight was fined by the US Postal Service?. I can't find any articles or other sources stating that Wiseman's flight was penalized. Is there any mistake? Please someone answer. Thanks! Phong Dang (talk) 07:50, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Darwin Naz What do you think about this? Phong Dang (talk) 10:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Phong Dang, sanction is one of those interesting words which can have opposite meanings. So when the article says Wiseman's flight was sanctioned by the U.S. Postal Service, it means it was officially authorised or approved. See Contronym for more info and examples. JennyOz (talk) 05:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, JennyOz, for your help! Hope that answered your concern Phong Dang. regards, Darwin Naz (talk) 23:23, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the answer. Have a nice day! Phong Dang (talk) 06:34, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Darwin Naz If it was "sanctioned" by the USPS, wouldn't that make it official? DHN (talk) 21:21, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]