Talk:Fun Lounge police raid

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 22:37, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that following a 1964 police raid on a gay bar, Chicago newspapers published the names and personal information of several of those arrested? Source: Chicago Sun-Times
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Oon Chiew Seng

Created by JJonahJackalope (talk). Self-nominated at 00:33, 3 April 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (t · c) buidhe 16:23, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fun Lounge police raid/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ErrantX (talk · contribs) 08:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I'll take a look through this one. It looks fairly close, so probably minor builds:

(2022-04-16)

Lead

• a notable moment in the LGBT history of the area. - is there a useful Wiki-link for this?
  • Added a link for LGBT culture in Chicago, which I believe is the closest useful wiki-link for that topic.
• However, these bars were often targeted in police raids - so the second para is OK but it doesn't fully set the scene, why were the police raiding these bars? Actually see notes in Background section
  • Expanded this section of the lead.

Background

• I think the first part of Background section needs to set the scene a bit more - apart from briefly referring to Police Harassment it is not clear *why* these raids were occurring, homophobia and anti-LGBT agenda of the period needs a bit more clarity. Imagine a reader who has limited broad knowledge, how do you fill in the blanks?
  • Expanded section to include greater background on anti-LGBT culture of the time.
• First sentence is a "run-on" sentence, suggest splitting it up a bit
  • Split the first sentence and performed some slight rephrasing.
• Note 1: I'd mention in the main text that the exact location is uncertain, the detail can stay in the note
• THe description of the bar has a lot of "according to" - maybe consider re-writing it a little to avoid the repetition
  • Rephrased description slightly to avoid repetition.
• These criminal connections... - I'd be tempted to make this a new paragraph
  • Reformatted section to establish this part as a new paragraph.

The raid

• The lower-case r is off-putting (personal thing) so I'd generally just us "Raid" for this section - might just be personal :)
  • Renamed section
• "fully book" - this is an Americanism; nothing wrong with that given the context, but I'd either recommend a link or to revise this to more global language for understanding
  • Added link to improve understanding.
• 6 male juveniles - so I would bring the ages sentence up and attach it to this sentence. Just expands nicely. I'd also mention Gager. A rewrite might be: In total 109 individuals were arrested during the raid, including Gager. Those detained ranged in age from 19 to 56 and included 97 males, 6 women and 6 male juveniles
  • Rephrased this section to improve the flow.
• Also on the above - pick a number format (numerical or word) and stick to it :)
  • Changed formatting to make it uniform.

Aftermath

• So my general summary is; what is not popping is that this wasn't a watershed moment for gay rights - the newspapers appear to have reflected the "party line" on anti-LGBT. Was there no contemporary criticism? Might be worth writing a brief summary for this section detailing that initial responses were supportive of the action. Again more detail in the Background section will allow you to create that link into the history of this. (Edit: I've seen a brief bit mentioned now in the arrested section - I still think you should summarise this whole aftermath section to highlight the disparity)

(2022-04-17)

• Newspaper coverage; this is perhaps more general feedback - but you seem to be trying to stick staunchly to recording a set of facts. But to me the point of this paragraph is to make clear that that Newspapers supported the Raid and then proceeded to do their very best to identify people. I feel it would make the para stronger to actually say this outright. Doesn't feel controversial.
  • Added statements to emphasize the stance of the newspapers regarding the raid.
• The arrested; what about Impact on those arrested?
  • Changed title.
• Speaking about the impact that the raid had on those involved, de la Croix stated in a 2012 ; so this sentence suggested to be that de la Croix was part of the event or knew people involved. Is the book a personal account or an academic research into the era? I know you mention it further up but you treat him slightly differently to the other authors & therefore worth adding context? i.e. is there any reason he is an authoritive source on the direct impact of the events?
  • The book itself is a historical work on the LGBT history of Chicago and according to his Wikipedia page did not move to Chicago until 1991. I added a bit of context in the Background section when he is first introduced and wiki-linked.
• Later Raids; I would swap over para 2 & 3 of this section (by the way; if you get some of the context into the earlier part of the article, this links in well)
  • Swapped the second and third paragraphs of the section.
• Following the raid, Cain was later fired by Ogilvie; following but later? this is unclear I'd be more specific about timing
  • Rephrased to improve clarity.
• Following the Fun Lounge raid, law enforcement agencies in the area, including both the sheriff's office and the Chicago Police Department, began a series of aggressive raids on other locations throughout the area -> The Fun Lounge raid was the beginning of a series of aggressive raids, by law enforcement agencies including the sheriff's office and the Chicago Policy Department, throughout the Mannheim Road area
  • Replaced sentence.

More later. ALso I will have a go at some copyediting bits later. --08:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

ErrantX, I just wanted to reach out and say that I have made some edits to the article to address some of the points in your GA review. Thank you for starting this review, and if you have any further questions, comments, or concerns, please reach out. -JJonahJackalope (talk) 17:32, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

@JJonahJackalope: looking good, I'm happy this meets the bar for GA :) have promoted it. Good work! Errant ^(chat!) 06:15, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Revised Unproven Claim

The claim that Governor Ogilvie lost his 1972 gubernatorial reelection bid, in part due to gay activists advocating against him, is unsupported by the evidence provided to substantiate this claim:

The first source cited states the following: "The raid was ordered by Cook County Sheriff Richard Ogilvie, who went on to become governor. When he ran for re-election in 1972, Advocates of Gay Action cited the raid in an ant-Ogilvie flyer: “… people were disgraced, reputations were ruined, jobs were lost, lives were destroyed and even suicides were committed.”

The second source cited states the following: "Ogilvie not only escaped the taint of his close association with Cain but also leveraged his aggressive tactics as sheriff, along with his well-publicized but unsuccessful prosecution of Accardo, to vault him to higher office. A Republican, he was elected Cook County board president in 1966 and governor of Illinois in a narrow victory over Democratic incumbent Sam Shapiro in 1968. In the gubernatorial campaign and in 1972, when Ogilvie lost to Dan Walker in a reelection bid,gay activists kept alive the memory of the Fun Lounge raid in urging gay and lesbian voters to reject Ogilvie."

While the Fun Lounge raid may have prompted gay and lesbian activists to mobilize voters against Ogilvie, neither source cited in the article discusses whether these efforts influenced the outcome of the election, let alone contributed to his defeat. For these reasons, I have revised two sentences to reflect the sources linked in the article:

1. Ogilvie lost his 1972 gubernatorial reelection bid, with gay activists advocating against him for his actions as Cook County Sheriff.

2. The raid prompted gay and lesbian activists to conduct outreach efforts to mobilize voters against Ogilvie during his unsuccessful 1972 reelection bid.

Astuishin (talk)