Talk:Gallery (theatre)

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Proposed merge of Minstrels' gallery into Gallery (theatre)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge as the topics are sufficiently distinct to warrant separate discussion. Klbrain (talk) 18:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposing to merge as a "minstrels' gallery" seems to have an insignificant architectural distinction from other galleries, apart from the fact that it is used only by musicians and not other kinds of people. The disambiguator at Gallery (theatre) could possibly be changed to "(architecture)" or something of the kind to facilitate the change. If the articles are merged, the entries at the Gallery disambiguation page will need to be changed accordingly. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:32, 26 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose with one caveat Architecture is not the only factor by which we distinguish things. For example, and I promise I'm not trying to be funny here, we distinguish between drug house and house even though they are architecturally identical. I'm not even convinced that the subjects at hand are even that physically identical; my first thought being that the placement can be fundamentally different since they are for performers rather than the audience, my second thought being that minstrels' galleries were sometimes meant to hide the musicians from sight, a visual and artistic tradition which has lasted through today with performance arrangements like James Murphy's Despacio. My one caveat is that I'd be more in favor of a merge if there is substantial evidence that shows that these two topics are so similar in all ways to live in the same article; without that, I think they're distinct enough to merit separate articles. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 02:24, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose They are entirely different entities. If there were a single article that grouped all different architectural uses of the term, then it would make sense to include Minstrels' gallery as a sub-set, but it doesn't makes sense to merge these two articles as is. -- Cl3phact0 (talk) 04:01, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Cl3phact0: Looking at the articles listed under the relevant section at the Gallery disambiguation page, it seems counterscarp galleries and long galleries only happen to use the term "gallery", and don't have much in common with the balcony-like structures that this discussion is about. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - As argued above, they are not the same thing. No books to hand as present, Curl’s Oxford Dictionary may well have something, but the former was a feature in private dwellings, whereas the latter is found in public spaces. KJP1 (talk) 04:47, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I did some reading so we could continue this discussion with a few more sources about the subject. Merriam-Webster defines a minstrels' gallery as "a small interior balcony over the entrance doors in a church, castle, or similar public building" [1], Collins' definition also alludes to the public aspect [2]. I also got a couple of results about churches, such as this one from Exeter Cathedral § Minstrels' gallery, which means there are at least a few examples of minstrels' galleries existing in religious environments. Tried looking for some more detailed information on Google Books and WP:TWL, but didn't come up with anything useful in my quick search. It would be great if someone could pitch in with a book source or something discussing minstrels' galleries.

@Orange Suede Sofa, Cl3phact0, and KJP1: Thoughts? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In my view, the comments and definitions above argue against this merger. Not only are these architectural elements not the same thing, but they serve different functions: The former, a minstrels' gallery, is intended to separate musicians from the proceedings of a hall by elevating them (somewhat like a traditional pulpit), while still maintaining a minimum visual and aural connection to the goings-on below (unlike, say, an orchestra pit or a separate space behind a choir screen); The latter, a theatre gallery, is simply the highest balcony, furthest from the stage, with the poorest sonic quality and view, and the cheapest seats (or no seats at all). Cheers, Cl3phact0 (talk) 18:58, 30 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.