Talk:George McNeill (golfer)

Contradiction

The info box says McNeill was born in Naples, FL, but the article says he was born and raised in Ft. Myers. Both can't be correct. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:16, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

infobox

The MOS is clear: "As with other biographical articles, flags are discouraged in sportspeople's individual infoboxes even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they may give undue prominence to one field over other." The MOS further states: "Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they are unnecessarily distracting and give undue prominence to one field among many." In addition, it states: "Flag icons should only be inserted in infoboxes in those cases where they convey information in addition to the text. Flag icons are visually distracting in infoboxes and lead to unnecessary disputes when over-used. " Jamming it into the info box of a mid-level pro golfer is NOT an appropriate exception to the MOS. Saying "it says discouraged" is also a dodge when you read all the "should not" and "only when"'s of the MOS. In short, there is nothing in the MOS that supports using it. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:09, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Equally, there is nothing in the MOS which prohibits its use. The fact that (to my knowledge) every article containing the infobox across Wikipedia uses the flags, suggests that WP:GOLF have come to a consensus that its use is appropriate here. Note the reasons the MOS gives for suggesting avoidance in infoboxes, sporting and otherwise - "they may give undue prominence to one field over others", and "they are unnecessarily distracting". I don't think either could be argued successfully here, the nationality category is neither unduly prominent nor distracting. Note that the talkpage for the infobox contains two separate nationally discussions [1] and [2], which are not explicitly about this debate but certainly touch upon it. I think you'd be better raising your points there, than on one, fairly obscure, page out of the hundreds which use the infobox. EJBH (talk) 02:00, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

• If, to your knowledge, every infobox uses flags, then I submit to you that your knowledge is limited. The majority do not. WP:GOLF clearly has NOT come to a consensus, as anyone looking at the project talk page can see. In addition to this article, separate editors have questioned the use in other golf articles. I HAVE raised the points at the project and continue to do so. This notion of "nothing prohibits it" is wiki-lawyering. when something is strongly discouraged and then acceptable exemptions are listed, when you aren't listed, take the obvious hint. The fact that the MOS actually specifies sportspeople as the example of when NOT to use the flag should be a strong clue. Saying "well, that doesn't say 'golf'" is just trying to ignore the obvious. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:54, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

My knowledge is limited? Please show me a single usage of the golf player infobox which doesn't use the flags. That's the basis for my suggestion that there's a consensus. The Project talk page is irrelevant - perhaps you need to recheck your understanding of WP:Consensus, consensus doesn't have to be reached by discussion on a talk page. If all editors on a project edit the same way, as they've done on this issue, an implicit consensus is reached. Anyway, let's leave it to the project discussion. EJBH (talk) 09:08, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

• You didn't specify only golfer infoboxes, making that a ridiculous argument. It becomes "look at the others we've done, so it must be right". How can you tell me the discussion at the project doesn't matter, then revert and use that discussion as a reference in your edit summary? Doubletalk much? Niteshift36 (talk) 11:20, 27 April 2012 (UTC)