Talk:Gilbert Arizona Temple

Dedicated by

As I can certainly see both sides to this issue, thought it worthwhile to start a discussion section on who dedicated the temple in Gilbert on 2 March 2014. When I first saw the good faith edits indicating Henry B. Eyring had dedicated the temple, I naturally presumed that Thomas S. Monson must not have been in attendance. Later in the day I saw the LDS Church Newsroom release indicating Monson had performed the dedication, with an associated reference to that point. I fully understand the thought or reasoning behind why Eyring would be listed, if he did read the dedicatory prayer at each of the 3 sessions. If one looks back historically at other dedications, the presiding officer is going to be the one considered as having performed the dedication. In cases where Eyring, Dieter F. Uchtdorf, Boyd K. Packer or others have performed these, and most notably Gordon B. Hinckley in the early 1980s, it is because they were assigned by the church's president and were the presiding officer. The practical side is that Eyring may have read the prayers, the "church" side is that you'd never have someone else "presiding" or "dedicating" when the church president is in attendance and not list the church president the acting party. So, that's my initial thoughts toward listing the temple as having been dedicated by Monson. ChristensenMJ (talk) 07:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the church's newsroom has updated the reference, noting that Eyring read the prayer twice and Monson once, but for me, the view expressed above is still the same. ChristensenMJ (talk) 07:42, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

It's interesting to note the difference in the text of the two versions of the press release; they even went as far as breaking the original url (there is no soft redirect to the new location from the old at this time).

Archive version of original article from 2014-03-03 17:28:28 UTC (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-monson-dedicates-142nd-temple):

The Church’s 142nd temple and Arizona’s fourth was dedicated and presided over by Thomas S. Monson, president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Sunday, 2 March 2014. His first counselor, President Henry B. Eyring in the First Presidency, also offered the temple dedicatory prayer in two of the sessions.

Archive version of updated article from 2014-03-04 16:44:48 UTC (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-dedicates-142nd-temple):

The Church’s 142nd temple and Arizona’s fourth was dedicated on Sunday, 2 March 2014. Thomas S. Monson, president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, presided over the dedicatory services and gave the prayer in the second session. His first counselor, President Henry B. Eyring in the First Presidency, offered the temple dedicatory prayer in two of the sessions.

Personally, I think that someone in the Church's PR department understands that the temple is actually dedicated once the dedicatory prayer is read for the first time (done by President Eyring for Gilbert), and the hosanna shout is performed. However for Wikipedia purposes we need a reliable secondary source that definitively states who did the dedication, as otherwise we are in original research territory. Since the Church's own PR department backed away from stating the President Monson dedicated the temple, we need a different source, and until we have one we should not list a name of who dedicated the temple. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 17:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Alternately we could list both, in the order of when they first read the prayer (Eyring then Monson). -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 17:33, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Listing both would be supported by the following ref: Avant, Gerry (March 2, 2014), "President Monson and President Eyring dedicate Arizona's fourth LDS temple", Deseret News. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 19:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Reviving this issue as directed. For me, I would say Eyring had more of a role in the dedicatory process of this temple than Monson. However, the site ldschurchtemples.com and the official Church website lists this temple as being dedicated by President Monson. So, as far as the Church is concerned, the one who reads the prayer in the first session is generally considered as the one who dedicated the temple. The Payson Utah Temple was dedicated on June 7. President Henry B. Eyring read the prayer in the first two sessions, and invited Elder Neil L. Andersen to read it in the final session. Shall we then say that who dedicated the Payson Utah Temple is up for debate? Surely it's clear to anyone with logic that President Eyring was the one who dedicated the temple. That's what all the sources say. And since most of the sources list this temple as being dedicated by President Monson, that's what should be listed on Wikipedia as well. At least, that's my two cents on the matter. --Jgstokes (talk) 02:46, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

"Most" of the sources don't list Monson as having dedicated it. The ldschurchtemples.com site noted is also trying to figure out how to deal with the unusual circumstance, as shown here. As noted above, the revised and now current official press release from the church, shown here, makes it clear that Eyring read the prayer in the first session. This is when the temple was dedicated. Subsequent sessions are held to accommodate participation/attendance by those in a temple district. It is not uncommon for someone else to read the prayer in one of these subsequent sessions, such as the Payson Utah Temple example trying to be cited. What was unusual in Gilbert was having the church's president there, but not reading the prayer in the primary dedicatory session. A case can't be made that other dedications are up for debate. It seems Eyring should be listed as the one who dedicated this temple, which is what brought about the revert on the recent addition. This is to try and obtain some consensus on that, rather than simply adding it and have other editors not understand why. ChristensenMJ (talk) 05:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Given intermittent, good faith edits by Jarber33, I am trying the talk page again. As noted in some of the above comments, this is still a tricky issue. One that the church's official Newsroom release seems to understand, as shown here. In an edit on the temple's template page, Jarber33 has invoked an FYI that "...nearly all temples dedicatory prayers are read by more than one person, however the sr. pres. officer in attendance is always considered the dedicator of record." It is true that often the prayers are read by more than one person, as Jgstokes noted above in the Payson example. While I haven't done any research to really "test" this statement - the thing that is unusual here is that the presiding officer was not the one to read the prayer in the first session - this virtually is "never" (the unresearched part) the case. Jarber33's FYI statement is not applicable because the presiding officer, the one "of record" is "always" the one first session reader in "all" other instances, thus the dedicator, so there isn't any question. I totally agree with the underlying principle or assertion that Jarber33 is referencing, that it's highly unusual (& perhaps the first time it's happened, although there may have been times for instance when Spencer W. Kimball attended, but Gordon B. Hinckley dedicated, I don't know) for the presiding officer to not have been the one who offered the prayer in the first session. I recognize as Jarber has noted that another of the church's sites on the temple shows Monson as the one who dedicate, as shown here. While the Church News was consistent with the Newsroom release in trying to "balance" this out, as represented with this article: Avant, Gerry (March 2, 2014), "President Monson and President Eyring dedicate Arizona's fourth LDS temple", Deseret News. Where does this leave things - consensus needs to try and be reached. For me, I lean toward listing them both, as suggested above by 208.81.184.4. (Sorry this is so wordy). For now, I am going to return the article and template to listing both until there can be a consensus reached. ChristensenMJ (talk) 16:16, 7 January 2016 (UTC)