Talk:Giulio Caccini

Cleaning up

I am going to attempt to clean up this article over the next few weeks. Anyone who is watching this page and wants to help, let me know.

I did notice the statement, "...the Camerata developed the concept of monody..." I think that the word "codified" might be a better term. There were several musical forms that were popular in Italy that were very close to monody (such as the frottola). The actual amount of innovation rather than documentation that the camerata (and Caccini) did has been a debated subject. I will dig though my articles and see if I can find the exact sources for the dispute (other than talking to my professors in the halls about it). Jmclark (talk) 11:33, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Caccini Ave Maria

The "Caccini Ave Maria", elaborately scored, either by Nick Ingman or George Brinums, revived by Inessa Galante and sung by Andrea Boccelli, Charlotte Church, et al., is now surely the most familiar music with a Caccini connection. It needs to be dealt with in this article more professionally than I could do. --Wetman (talk) 20:16, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

As I know, "Ave Maria" was nor revived, but attributed to Caccini in early 1970's in USSR. First time, when Caccini's name was writen, Irina Arkhipova sing it. Then it was "exported" in Europe by Galante (latvian singer, who knows Arkhipova works very good). It was hoax by Vladimir Vavilov, who cannot publish records by his own name and attributed his works to not very known italian composers or anonymous. So, first time "Ave Maria" appeared on the album "Lute Music of the XVI-XVII centuries" on the Soviet "Melodia" label with the attribution to “Anonymous”. More in Vladimir Vavilov and Inessa Galante pages and there. Sorry for my English. 178.165.100.159 (talk) 00:15, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I have deleted the statement that the composition of polychoral works would have been alien to Caccini. He lived in a time where polychoral (polyphonic) music was considered normal. He would have received most of his training and done much of his performance work with polyphonic and polychoral music. Caccini did not like polychoral music, however he would have been intimately familiar with it. Jmclark (talk) 02:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

What I meant was he would have been disinclined to write it. Maybe "alien" was not the best word. Antandrus (talk) 02:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Composer project review

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This is a pretty good article, but I expected to read more about how his musical innovations in opera influenced others. That and other issues are in my review on the comments page; questions and comments should be left here or on my talk page. Magic♪piano 20:02, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Giulio Caccini/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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==Composers Project Assessment of Giulio Caccini: 2009-01-25== This is an assessment of article Giulio Caccini by a member of the Composers project, according to its assessment criteria. This review was done by Magicpiano. If an article is well-cited, the reviewer is assuming that the article reflects reasonably current scholarship, and deficiencies in the historical record that are documented in a particular area will be appropriately scored. If insufficient inline citations are present, the reviewer will assume that deficiencies in that area may be cured, and that area may be scored down. Adherence to overall Wikipedia standards (WP:MOS, WP:WIAGA, WP:WIAFA) are the reviewer's opinion, and are not a substitute for the Wikipedia's processes for awarding Good Article or Featured Article status. ===Origins/family background/studies=== Does the article reflect what is known about the composer's background and childhood? If s/he received musical training as a child, who from, is the experience and nature of the early teachers' influences described? ok ===Early career=== Does the article indicate when s/he started composing, discuss early style, success/failure? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok ===Mature career=== Does the article discuss his/her adult life and composition history? Are other pedagogic and personal influences from this time on his/her music discussed? ok ===List(s) of works=== Are lists of the composer's works in WP, linked from this article? If there are special catalogs (e.g. Köchel for Mozart, Hoboken for Haydn), are they used? If the composer has written more than 20-30 works, any exhaustive listing should be placed in a separate article. No complete works list. ===Critical appreciation=== Does the article discuss his/her style, reception by critics and the public (both during his/her life, and over time)? Legacy is more asserted than elaborated; this is deficient. ===Illustrations and sound clips=== Does the article contain images of its subject, birthplace, gravesite or other memorials, important residences, manuscript pages, museums, etc? Does it contain samples of the composer's work (as composer and/or performer, if appropriate)? (Note that since many 20th-century works are copyrighted, it may not be possible to acquire more than brief fair use samples of those works, but efforts should be made to do so.) If an article is of high enough quality, do its images and media comply with image use policy and non-free content policy? (Adherence to these is needed for Good Article or Featured Article consideration, and is apparently a common reason for nominations being quick-failed.) One image; one sound. ===References, sources and bibliography=== Does the article contain a suitable number of references? Does it contain sufficient inline citations? (For an article to pass Good Article nomination, every paragraph possibly excepting those in the lead, and every direct quotation, should have at least one footnote.) If appropriate, does it include Further Reading or Bibliography beyond the cited references? Article has references; no inline citations. ===Structure and compliance with WP:MOS=== Does the article comply with Wikipedia style and layout guidelines, especially WP:MOS, WP:LEAD, WP:LAYOUT, and possibly WP:SIZE? (Article length is not generally significant, although Featured Articles Candidates may be questioned for excessive length.) ok ===Things that may be necessary to pass a Good Article review=== More detail on asserted legacy needed Article requires more inline citations (WP:CITE) Article needs (more) images and/or other media (MOS:IMAGE) ===Summary=== This is a fairly nice article. My principle issue with it (other than the usual ones for most of the articles on composers of this age: not enough images, inline citations, works list) is that his legacy really could use elaboration. When I read in the lead that he is "one of the founders of the genre of opera", I somehow expected the "Music and influence" section to have a more elaborate explanation of the connection of his innovations to, say, operas of the early Classical period (or some earlier time where the idea of opera is acknowledged to be reasonably widely established as a genre). Article is B-class. Magic♪piano 19:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC) There are a good many issues when it comes to asserting facts about aspects of Caccini's works. Much of his music went unpublished and is lost (or simply sitting on a library shelf somewhere awaiting discovery). There is also a fair amount of debate going on as to the exact amount of contribution Caccini made towards opera. Florentine monody may or may not have actually developed from his theories (some musicologist theorize that Caccini did not develop anything, but-rather- codified a performance practice), at the some time (and demonstrably independent from Florentine monody) you find Roman monody and French "Musique Mesurée." Modern opera is more of a French development and, arguably, has more to do with the French Style than the Florentine and it can be argued that Caccini's actual influence on Classical and modern operatic styles is marginal. The surviving records that we have of Caccini's life do not amount to much, and the article as it stands describes what we can verifiablely say about him without launching into either oversimplified versions of music history or sourcing ill-understood and contested concepts in historical musicology. Jmclark (talk) 10:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 10:41, 18 March 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 16:20, 29 April 2016 (UTC)