Talk:Hügelkultur

hugel swale controversy

I created the subsection on hugel swale controversy. If anyone would like to discuss the content or tone, I would be happy to rejoin to you. Patron Vectras (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a very interesting perspective on the subject.- MrX 12:22, 17 March 2016 (UTC)h

Natural toxins present in some wood

see appropedia [1] Matthew Ferguson (talk)

Hi, Matthew Ferguson

To (quote) "Wood is high in carbon and will consume nitrogen during composting. This is much less of an issue (if at all) with well rotted wood." (Source):

The need, the consume, of nitrogen to break down, to compost, is not a problem, if, there are no plants, from whom is nitrogen taken away, and no problem, if (enough) nitrogen is available.

Available either through nitrogen in healthy soil, (or/and, as add) in compost, (or/and, as add) in dung or (animal´s) manure, or very similar; prefered, for sustainable: natural, ecological.

The more (enough) nitrogen, the faster the composting.

The faster the composting, the less the (natural) toxins are a problem.

Sadnessly, this Nitrification, doesn´t appear as already easy understood, if at all.

Either related to bigger logs or just wood chips.

My knowledge about nitrogen (from dung or animal´s manure, or also what else) is from a source which is not very well to note to, because it is just groups of Back To Eden Gardening, where even a Wikipedia article does not exist about. And even in these groups it is to figure out these connections, I represent here, by oneself.

So, a very tricky source.

There surely could be sources, but I cannot do the effort, to try to find those, perhaps, or also not. Sorry.

So I only have my work, my recognitions, my representation(s), my knowledge to this as now so.

And this is also, what I do not may understand about Wikipedia: does Wikipedia accept truth(es), recognizable from its contents, or does Wikipedia prefer just the sources, which are established, but mostly mixed with opinions and ideologies, so: ever (mostly) two each other fighting parties, and but often not even clear representing these both different directions. (But can happen from me, too. This is (un-tought) un-learned: challenge.) Sorry, with hope for permission, to may say it. Sorry, if mis-placed.

Visionhelp (talk) 13:13, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Recent edits

• I have made a request for the IPA of the word as I feel this will be more professional [2]

• Is there a source to support the synonym "german mounds"? All the sources I have read state that it is a german word meaning mound culture but not that ithey are called geerman mounds.

• Is there a source to support the increased acreage statement? This seems likely to be correct but we should have a source for this info in the encyclopedia article.

Many thanks, Matthew Ferguson (talk) 19:45, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

I have removed the claims referenced in your last two questions. Wikis are not reliable sources, and "acreage" is dubious, as well as unsourced.- MrX 🖋 21:32, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Actually the acreage statement must be entirely correct. If we think of a hugel mound as pyramid in cross section. The 2 sides will have greater surface area than a non raised bed of same dimensions as the base of the pyramid. Source needed of course but it does make sense. Matthew Ferguson (talk) 08:16, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

I found a source that uses the term German Mound to refer to this technique. Re-adding this as a synonym. Matthew Ferguson (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

@Matthew Ferguson 57: Could you cite the page number (not the entire book) and tell us (here) what the text actually says. German mound is mentioned on page 43, but Hügelkultur is not found anywhere in the book. Also, I can't find any other references to this claim.- MrX 🖋 12:11, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, was citing page 43, the source describes the same techniqe but does not use the german word meaning "hill / mound culture". The source does not explicitly state that german mound is a synonym for Hugelkultur. However I feel it is a falacious to suggest, as I think you are, that equivacating this source with this topic constitutes original research. Upon reading the section, exactly the same technique is described. The real question for me is whether this synonym is worthy of mentioning in the article, since it is the only source so far that uses this term. Incidentally I was reading this morning Robert Hart's Forest Gardeneing book, and on p.54 he states "mound planting has been taken up with enthusiasm in germany, where it is termed hugelkultur." Again, it is mainly a question of whether the less commonly used terms are noteworthy. Regards, Matthew Ferguson (talk) 12:47, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

The source does not say Hügelkultur [is] also termed "German Mounds" or any paraphrase of that. You seem to have come to that conclusion on your own, which is WP:original research. The author may be talking about the same concept, or a variation, but he omits any mention of compost or plant material, but adds inverted turfs all of which distinguish his concept from Hügelkultur. It's also unclear whether the Hügelkultur is also know as German mounds, or if that is simply the author's attempt at a neologism.- MrX 🖋 13:57, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

If you read what I said above again, I agreed that the source does not explicitly state they are synonyms. However upon reading the source, the same technique is described. I do not think this constitutes OR, however I don't particularly mind if this synonym is included or not. Kind, regards, Matthew Ferguson (talk)

Hi.

"German mounds" in german is comparable in sense with german hills.

Hügelkultur in german is the only term in german I know, which is used for Hügelkultur; the wordpart culture here does in german bring the ´mound-culture´ into gardening, in the sense and meaning of Hügelkultur. (But a source I cannot offer. Sorry.)
--Visionhelp (talk) 14:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi again.
Hügelkultur in Germany is not very known. As I did hear it first, I thought of graves (in hills) and archaelogy. Until understanding: no, something for gardening.

Kultur (culture) already is a rare used word in the everyday life. And ´hill culture´ as word also is not an ´easy going´, not an ´easy-coming´ word, from not being self-explaining.

Once understanding what it means, one at once understands, it has something to do with effort, alone to figure out more to understand more. So this topic, this word, is done, so far.

The problem in english is the letter ´ü´ and ´Ü´, which does not exist in english, not even to speak (with a similar one), no matter written how. These are two problems in ´one´.

And this is not to solve. So, just to represent, to explain: that.

I think, this explains the troubles. (No source, just my knowledge.)

Sorry. The german pronunciation: [ˈhyːɡl̩kʊlˌtuːɐ̯] shows (reminds) me the ´y´, if spoken as ´ü´; in german more spoken as ´ee´ and also short ´e´, depending on the word.

(But: ´kultur´ ist spoken the first ´u´ a short ´oo´ (as in book), and the second ´u´ a long spoken ´oo´, as in ´cool´ or also as in ´move´. Those pronunciation letters I do not understand really, but sorry, if unnecessary here this note.

Note: ´Hügel´ is the word for one AND for more, hill and hills, mound and mounds. Translated to mounds is confusing to the use of ´Hügel´ and ´Hügelkultur´, where it is not at all about the more (the plural), the mounds.

Best Regards. Visionhelp (talk) 09:31, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

To "It's also unclear whether the Hügelkultur is also know as German mounds, or if that is simply the author's attempt at a neologism.":

I am sure it is a "neologism", as many daily.

In german an other word for ´Hügelkultur´ is hill bed, or mound bed (´Hügelbeet´); I do not remind a, clear for me, difference between hill and mound. (Where bed always is translated to the bed to sleep in. The german word for it is ´Beet´. Which is the word for garden bed.)

To search the internet brought me to search in the german Wikipdia: ´Hügelbeet´, which is the german language site of this article here. That ´Hügelbeet´ is used as article title, ´Hügelkultur´ redirects to it, is just confusing now to me. Here a link to translating to english http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FH%25C3%25BCgelbeet

(with http://free-website-translation.com/?de)

(Sorry, the lots of text.) Visionhelp (talk) 08:56, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

To ´Overfertilization, ...´

Hi.
To ´Overfertilization, ...´ "overfertilization is a risk in the first year if woodchips are used, which will break down too fast."
in opposite to ´Theory´ "decomposition speed ... "
The representation of ´Overfertilizing ...´ to me appears ´a bit´ tricky:
Woodchips do not break down fast.
Wood chips TAKE (need) nitrogen to break down.
Usual taken out of the soil or/and the compost and the still leaving nitrogen for plants may (can) be to LESS. (Depending on the needs which plant.)
Manure (animal´s dung) does help there, or similar nitrogen providing stuff as urine and what else ... (See Nitrification) Then they can break down fast.

To (Quotes) "Advocates state that overfertilization is a risk in the first year if woodchips are used, which will break down too fast.", "Instead raised beds made with whole logs release nutrients slowly over a period of years. (Both Sepp Holzer).
Isn´t this just discrediting the Hügelkultur, please ? (In the name of (high) raised beds; which (as just raised beds) at least in Germany are more higher as I have to realize at least in the US; about 55 to 75 cm. Sorry, another topic.) --Visionhelp (talk) 14:40, 10 June 2020 (UTC) No, very sorry, speaks against: woodchips and raised beds.
Visionhelp (talk) 11:07, 26 July 2021 (UTC)