Talk:Han dynasty

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Featured article Han dynasty is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Featured topic star Han dynasty is the main article in the Han Dynasty series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 20, 2009.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
March 27, 2009 Good article nominee Listed
April 21, 2009 Featured article candidate Promoted
June 11, 2009 Featured topic candidate Promoted
Current status: Featured article

Nonsense[edit]

"at the time. Antoninus Pius died in AD 161. The confusion arises because Marcus Aurelius took as additional names, those of his predecessor as a mark of respect. He is referred to in Chinese history as An Tun (= Antoninus) hence the confusion]--> reached the Chinese capital Luoyang in 166 and was greeted by Emperor Huan."

What has this to do with the Han-Dynasty?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.160.170.159 (talkcontribs) 2:25, 18 February 2005 (UTC)

Citation style[edit]

Would people mind if I changed this article to use citation templates (as in Ming dynasty)? It's much the same appearance, but would link short citations to references and greatly simplify handling of repeated citations. Kanguole 22:17, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

@Kanguole: That would be a great improvement! Harv ref style is much better suited for complicated articles like this one. -Zanhe (talk) 14:41, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
Done. I couldn't find a target for de Crespigny (1986), though. Kanguole 23:27, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! Looks like Underbar dk fixed the de Crespigny issue. -Zanhe (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
This citation format has recently been challenged or just ignored by editors who just post all the reference info within the citations. I have reverted much of that content, and fixed the rest. I would also like to remind such editors that, in the future, you should follow the accepted standard for this article, which has been stable for the past two years. --Pericles of AthensTalk 14:19, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Lead Too Long[edit]

I've added cleanup tags for someone to shorten the lead to "Three or four paragraphs." I am not well versed on this subject, so I will leave that to those of you that are.  {MordeKyle  02:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Well, WP:LEAD also says it's not an absolute rule. I notice that World War II's lead has 5 paragraphs. _dk (talk) 22:03, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
Almost all policies on Wikipedia are not absolute rules and allow for exceptions. I don't see why this article, or even World War II, would be exceptions to these standards.  {MordeKyle  22:12, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
It's not really an issue now that I've combined the last two paragraphs. Pericles of AthensTalk 22:39, 10 November 2016 (UTC)
It still is though. Combining two separate paragraphs makes the now extra large paragraph grammatically incorrect. The lead needs to be shortened overall. The lead is supposed to be a brief summary of the article. Information that is mentioned later in the article can be removed from the lead.  {MordeKyle  00:09, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Grammatically incorrect? What? That doesn't make any sense. In either case the final paragraph is a summary of the entire history of the Han dynasty, spanning 400 years. That's roughly as long as the Roman Empire; you should take a look at the lead section in that article for a comparison. Every statement found in the lead section is covered at length in the article. The length of the lead is by no means unwieldy either. If you are new to Wikipedia you should familiarize yourself with other articles and how they are written. Pericles of AthensTalk 01:15, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
The format of other articles do not indicate how this article should be. I can point to other articles that have absolutely atrocious layouts that have been stable for a long time, but this does not mean they are correct. One paragraph that covers multiple subjects would not be grammatically correct. I have familiarized myself with a lot of article, including some that are just as long as this one, if not longer, yet have much smaller leads. I am not well versed on this subject, which is why I added the tags and made a note in the talk section. I do not know exactly which bits of information are necessary for the lead, and which bits could be removed.  {MordeKyle  01:48, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Then I would advise that you actually read the article, thoroughly, making a note of every major point that is made, and then return to the lead section. Otherwise this conversation is rather pointless. I could save you the trouble, though, by assuring you that the statements contained in the lead fully reflect the content of the article (I should know, I'm the one who submitted this as a Featured Article candidate several years ago). No one in the FA process found any glaring errors or problems with the lead. I'm also perplexed as to why you keep referring to grammar & syntax. Grammatical accuracy has nothing to do with going off-topic and introducing a number of different subjects within the same paragraph. Looking at the lead section as it stands now, the first paragraph is clearly an introductory blurb that defines the Han dynasty, gives date ranges, and briefly mentions its significance for Chinese culture. The second paragraph talks about Han society and culture. The third paragraph talks about Han economics and innovations. The fourth paragraph is essentially a summary of the history section, a very terse and condensed historical narrative for the four centuries that the Han Empire existed in China/Mongolia/northern Vietnam/North Korea. Pericles of AthensTalk 02:41, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
To be frank about it, I think you're "making a mountain out of a molehill" here, so to speak. Pericles of AthensTalk 02:48, 11 November 2016 (UTC)
Ok, sorry about trying to be helpful and stick to the guidelines and policies of Wikipedia. Cya later.  {MordeKyle  02:52, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Recent activity, March 2018[edit]

Recently, I had to revert an edit to the lead section that greatly expanded it, without any significant justification or even a discussion here on the talk page first. I shouldn't have to remind editors that this is a Featured article. It is not only held to higher standards, but significant amounts of additional content should not be accepted without reaching a strong community consensus beforehand. At the very least the person who submitted "Han dynasty" as a Featured Article Candidate (that would be me) should have been consulted first and foremost. The content that was added did not summarize materials already found in the body of the article, per the standards of WP:LEAD and WP:SUMMARY. It also contained a high degree of flowery, non-encyclopedic language unsuitable for an encyclopedic entry. If the editor would like to add some of this information to the body of the article, that's another conversation. Dumping it into the first paragraph of the lead section, which is already long enough, is not acceptable. Pericles of AthensTalk 14:30, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

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