Talk:Harold DeMarsh

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by Theleekycauldron (talk) 02:02, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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... that Harold DeMarsh became the first NCAA champion at the 1928 NCAA Wrestling Championships?
- ALT0a: ... that Harold DeMarsh became the first NCAA wrestling champion in 1928?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Travis Lupick
- Comment: The two Facebook posts are reliable due to being from the National Wrestling Hall of Fame and Museum. While the website Pistols Firing is a reliable source, I did not add the part on the article that was taken from the obituary because Find a Grave is considered unreliable by Wikipedia.

Created by SL93 (talk). Self-nominated at 07:36, 26 March 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Comment: I read the hook and thought DeMarsh was the first NCAA champion in any sport- left an ALT0a to clarify. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 20:01, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Article meets DYK requirements and a QPQ has been done. I prefer ALT0a due to being less ambiguous. It is cited inline to a Facebook page, which I am accepting per WP:ABOUTSELF. However, as other editors may end up disagreeing with this sentiment, I'd like to see at least one other source confirming it just to be on the safe side. The reasons I'm not approving this yet is because I'm a little confused about Pistols Firing: are you saying that the Pistol Firing source can't be used to confirm the hook fact, or it can? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:36, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5 I'm saying it can be used for everything I sourced for it. I meant that the part of the source which only quotes the Find A Grave obituary can't be used due to Wikipedia not considering Find A Grave to be a reliable source (and I didn't use it). I only added the comment so the reviewer would know why I didn't that background information. SL93 (talk) 07:46, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Is it okay if you duplicate the Pistol Firing footnote in the sentence about him being the first NCAA wrestling champion? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:50, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5 I decided to add a reliable video as a source with significant coverage. I'm going to add it now although I might source it wrong since I never used a video as a reference before. SL93 (talk) 07:55, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5 I added it. I hope my formatting works for the reference. SL93 (talk) 08:06, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

NCAA.com mentions it, but is that independent of the subject. Will this work? It lists the winners that year by weight class and 115 pounds is listed first due to that being the first match. This is only assuming that the Youtube source is like the Facebook one. If not, I will duplicate the reference for Pistols Firing. SL93 (talk) 08:47, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The clipping source mentions multiple "champions"; can this be clarified? I'd like to see the NCAA source; if it's good enough, I think the NCAA source should suffice. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:18, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5 NCAA. I'm trying to find a source to clarify the newspapers.com clipping. DeMarsh was the NCAA wrestling champion due to the lowest weight class (which he was in) starting first and him winning that. SL93 (talk) 09:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I asked for help on the DYK talk page since I'm having trouble verifying that the 115-pound weight class was first. SL93 (talk) 10:47, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Narutolovehinata5 I was able to clarify it by buying an ebook, but I'm pretty sure the reference format for that is wrong. I replaced the YouTube link with the NCAA link. What do you think? SL93 (talk) 19:44, 12 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The NCAA reference does confirm that he was a first champion, but the wording is vague as to if it's referring to NCAA wrestling in general or merely of his weight class. One possible option could simply be to change the hook to say that, instead of being the first NCAA wrestling champion, he was merely among the first. I know such a revision would probably make the hook less interesting, but it's really the best that can be done given the current sourcing situation. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:54, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will withdraw the nomination if I have to do that because of the sources that verifies it which you won't accept for some reason although the rules allow them - the Facebook source, YouTube source, and Pistols Firing. SL93 (talk) 12:31, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Consider this withdrawn. SL93 (talk) 12:33, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't say I didn't accept the sources. On the contrary I did say they're just fine. My concern wasn't the sources themselves but rather the apparent contradictions in sourcing: the Facebook and Pistols Firing sources state claim he was the first overall but the other sources including the NCAA source suggest that he was the first in his weight class, and I'm not sure how to reconcile these differences. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:56, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will withdraw it. I'm not going to have it on the front page with a different hook with three sources that say he was the first. SL93 (talk) 12:59, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:21, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]