Talk:Idriss Aberkane

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BLP and criticism[edit]

Hello,

I understand there are concerns for a BLP article about criticisms, but perhaps in such case the solution is to delete the article instead of remove the only content they are notorious for. --Dereckson (talk) 18:43, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure this is a good idea — fr.wp deleted the page 2015-11-11, but got a consensus to restore it 2016-11-11. --Dereckson (talk) 19:20, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

We need much better sources about this guy, that give basic biographical information and talk about what he does. There is almost nothing in English about him :( Jytdog (talk) 00:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, it is not an easy article to feed in content. It was already deleted once on frwiki before being restored one year later, following a consensus. The article has already been cleaned several times from sources not independent or promotional and not neutral. Lofhi (talk) 00:56, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just a passer-by. But the title is "French Teacher"... But where ? Teacher is not a "free label"... He doesn't have ANY teacher diploma and never taught in ANY french school... So unless you provide source of his official "French Teacher" activity, here, in France, he's just a personal coach... It's QUITE different... Or you can label EVERYBODY teacher, but that would make a lot of page to change.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1206:4592:8E50:4196:EED7:90D8:F9E6 (talk) 01:13, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Birthplace[edit]

Where is the Pithiviers birthplace statement coming from? La nouvelle Republic says quite clearly: Né en 1986 dans le Val de Marne, en banlieue parisienne.... So ?? Jytdog (talk) 00:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's an old fact that stayed on the article in french. I don't know why. His personal site that says he was born in this city. So the article and the site must be confronted. Lofhi (talk) 00:56, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well we should leave it out, until we have something definitive... Jytdog (talk) 01:09, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Degrees[edit]

And what about his education? Does he have three PhDs as we understand that in the English-speaking world, or not? Le Monde says il est aussi titulaire de trois doctorats interdisciplinaires : en neuroergonomie et économie de la connaissance (Paris Saclay), en littérature comparée (université de Strasbourg) et en diplomatie (PhD du Centre d'études diplomatiques et stratégiques, un institut privé). which translates to he also holds three interdisciplinary doctorates: in neuroergonomics and economics knowledge (Paris Saclay), comparative literature (University of Strasbourg) and diplomacy (PhD Center for Diplomatic and Strategic Studies, a private institute). Jytdog (talk) 00:49, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

am going with the above, for now. one of the pieces i read today said that one of these was somehow "bought"? not sure.. Jytdog (talk) 01:08, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog : That is another problem (there are so many of them...). The diploma given by the Centre d'études diplomatiques et stratégiques has no official recognition in France, because the French State delegates the awarding of national diplomas to public higher education institutions and the CEDS is a private institute.

Here is the French law text that explains it [1]: Private higher education institutions may in no case take the title of universities. Certificates of study that are deemed appropriate for awarding students may not bear the titles of a baccalaureate, a licence or a doctorate. The fact, for the person in charge of an institution to give this one the title of university or to make grant certificates bearing the title of baccalaureate, licence or doctorate, is punished by 30000 euros of fine. That's why the private institute give a PhD degree and not a doctorate. Lofhi (talk) 01:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC) Edit: old version of the law, they added the master's degree too.[reply]

Thanks for ~kind of~ explaining! Le Monde says he has three "doctorats interdisciplinaires" but one of them is a "PhD". This is confusing even in French. Especially with Le Monde calling the PhD a "doctorat" how do we explain the difference for the PhD in English? Also is there less work for the PhD? Jytdog (talk) 01:30, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog : as explained, it's a way around the problem. They cannot give the doctoral degree, so they give an equal title: PhD. So I guess the level has to be similar. That's why I think Le Monde deliberately confused the two titles. Nevertheless, there is a difference that does exist, as explained by law. Lofhi (talk) 01:48, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Let me ask two questions. Is there any difference in terms of the work to earn "doctorate" compared with a "PhD"? Is there any difference in ... meaning -- in the reception of the credential -- between a doctorate and a Phd? Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 03:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Is it this sort of thing? Jytdog (talk) 20:19, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog : I feel like I'm expressing myself badly. The article states that in France people think that a doctorate is less rewarding than an engineering school diploma, this is true and it is also explained in this article of Le Monde. This article also says that having a doctorate or PhD is better seen abroad. In the article's comments, many people say that the level is similar between the two (but it's still just comments). However, technically, someone studying for a PhD in France will study less than a doctoral student (3-4? vs 8 years). That is why, with these articles, I think we can say that even if the level tends to be similar, a doctoral student has worked more to get his diploma than for a PhD.

Moreover, in France, doctoral students are less popular than students in private schools for a single reason: the public university did not make a real selection until next September. This will be the case (very lightly) because of fairly high failure rates in certain fields. Private schools, on the other hand, are elite schools: they are expensive and do selection. It's this selection that makes you think that a doctoral student is less good than an engineer, which is ridiculous. In conclusion: the French private schools try to renew themselves by offering PhD level diplomas, because they see that it is well seen abroad and because they cannot deliver a doctoral degree. Basically, this is a bit like what you say: these students in private schools do indeed have a good level, but it is sometimes seen as diplomas bought. Lofhi (talk) 01:36, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Total overhaul[edit]

Hi Jytdog. Such a radical change should have been discussed here for approval before. I propose to restore a previous version, but keeping corrections about the place of birth and Phd vs doctorates. mnadiv (talk) - 23:02, 15 May 2018 (UTC).[reply]

These changes follow Wikipedia's English recommendations. This is not the case with these changes: [2] no sources, [3], promo + source whose quality is not recognized and which is not independent, [4] removed sourced reviews that could have been balanced in the content of the article. The rest of the problems have been added by a new account, Avodayafa, that flouts a simple principle: one fact = one source. The article is now synthetic and relies solely on quality sources, leaving aside everything that is superfluous or confusing.

You ask for a consensus before modifying the article, but you completely ignore the discussion above around the notion "Doctorate vs PhD" with your modification. You know this article is the subject of controversy: frwiki contributors have broken the three-revert rule before the article was protected.

Idriss is the son of a couple of associate professors of mathematics. He was also a member of the Muslim Scouts of France, of whom his father was one of the first leaders = ^{[citation needed]}.

Idriss Aberkane is also an entrepreneur in the field of education, new technologies, either. The article does not say that he is an entrepreneur, it just indicates that this teacher is included in the project, that's all. Lofhi (talk) 01:12, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

mnadiv you restored content that violates several content policies in Wikipedia, including WP:V, WP:NPOV, WP:PROMO, and WP:BLP. Please do not restore content that violates Wikipedia's policies. I also left you a note on your talk page. Please reply there. Thanks! Jytdog (talk) 01:53, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jytdog The accusations of WP:NPOV and WP:PROMO are not founded. But understood, let's start over with stronger sources, I agree on that point. Sincerely Mnadiv (talk) 07:04, 16 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am awaiting a reply at your talk page. Jytdog (talk) 18:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Idriss Jamil Aberkane.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:36, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Place of birth rectification[edit]

Idriss Aberkane was born in France, not in Algeria. The mention to rectify is under his picture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 105.235.132.146 (talk) 20:24, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]