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Potential sources

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October 2020 Pentagon report to congress:

Data Analysis:

Possible external links?:

Classroom use:

Once used, will cross out. Jlevi (talk) 01:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yeah, I've read those data analysis articles but they were pretty esoteric, I couldn't really figure out how to incorporate them into the article. Thoughts? Maybe expand on international cooperation?RKT7789 (talk) 06:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure yet. I think some of it could go in the 'history' section to describe the growth and changes of the site over time. Alternatively, it could just be consolidated under the 'leak' section, since it is interesting, but perhaps only interesting for a particular audience. By providing the analysis on the page, it provides that value to those particular readers. By consolidating, it leaves those finicky details out for the rest. We'll see! I'll try integrating some of these details in the coming week or so. Feel free to modify as you see fit--I very much value another set of eyes when it comes to due weight issues like this. Jlevi (talk) 03:12, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Iron March Dossiers is a good site, wouldn't be able to use it as a direct source as sadly Wikipedia doesn't consider antifascist blogs RS, but we can however use it as a sort of guide to search for RS articles that reported on the findings, like the ICE camp captain's case. Not sure about external link policy.RKT7789 (talk) 07:42, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jlevi: Counter Extremism Project released their magnum opus, commissioned by German Federal Foreign Office: “Violent Right-Wing Extremism and Terrorism – Transnational Connectivity, Definitions, Incidents, Structures and Countermeasures”. Goes into magnificent detail about IM and related groups and much more. I believe you'll find it useful.RKT7789 (talk) 14:01, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wow. This rocks. Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. Jlevi (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Yup, I copied from there. Is this an issue? I was under the impression that rationalwiki is under a very permissive copyright scheme. I would be interested in learning more about the specifics of WP copyright if I have erred. Jlevi (talk) 01:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
David Gerard, maybe you'd be able to comment? I assume you're among those best qualified to talk about rationalwiki copyright issues. I find that rationalwiki often has articles with lots of content that is more than suitable for placement on Wikipedia (perhaps with light copy-editing), so it would be useful to know in the future if this kind of copying is no good. This was my first time doing this. Thank you for your time! Jlevi (talk) 02:00, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RW is CC-by-sa, so we can use RW content on WP with a notice using {{CCBYSASource}}. See the copyright notice at the bottom of Freeman on the land for an example (and see Talk:Freeman_on_the_land/Archive_1#Source_laundering for how the RW content got there). I'm not fully up on how encouraged or discouraged this is in 2020, but that's what WP did in that case - David Gerard (talk) 05:13, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict over starting date in sources

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I think I noticed a conflict in when articles say the website was started. I'll need to trace back through my sourcing, but I'll try to isolate the difference:

  • Founded in 2011: [2][3][4] CTV uses phrase "active" in reference to 2011. [5]
  • Hatewatch started scraping Iron March in 2011. Exact starting date isn't mentioned.
  • Founded prior to summer 2010: [6]
  • Founded in 2008: [7]

Jlevi (talk) 01:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ironmarch was found in 2011, the earlier dates in the articles refer to different, earlier forums that had some of the same users but were separate from ironmarch nevertheless. One of the earlier incarnations was named International Third Position Federation which the Vice article seems to confuse with similarly named International Third Position. At least no other article makes this connection.

RKT7789 (talk) 02:23, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I was having an oddly difficult time parsing those statements. Jlevi (talk) 02:25, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"he appeared to approach members with the understanding that they already knew him from a previous iteration of the forum.
"Welcome all to the Iron March forum, formerly known as the ITPF forum,” he wrote, referring to a neo-fascist internet forum called International Third Position Federation. “This topic is a roll call for all veteran forum members – post here if you were back with us at the ITPF forum, all newcomers please proceed to the Introductions area.”
mysterious Neo-Nazi Advocated Terrorism for Six Years Before Disappearance. RKT7789 (talk) 02:31, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fascist Forge

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@Jlevi: I'm fine with mentioning Fascist Forge in the article, but can it be considered actual successor to Iron March, when it didn't share any of the staff or users with IM. A spiritual successor, though, certainly. And yes, I admit this is nitpicking of the worst kind.RKT7789 (talk) 11:44, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@RKT7789: I hear what you're saying. I don't have strong feelings about this. Feel free to remove. Jlevi (talk) 11:56, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Jlevi: I'm also creating an .svg of the Iron March logo based on the one from here. They're fine copyright wise if they're your own creations, right?RKT7789 (talk) 11:59, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
RKT7789 I usually add logos to Wikipedia rather than to Wikimedia Commons because WP:logo is somewhat complicated. If a logo is composed of simple lines, shapes, and letters, or if it is a 'historically common' symbol, then logos are usually public domain. Otherwise, they're often non-free. This logo might fall under the 'historically common' category, given that it is composed of what look like standard fascist iconography. But I don't really know. Might be worth asking at the appropriate noticeboard. Jlevi (talk) 18:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and making a screenshot is not the same as authorship. You are not the author in this case--that's whoever made this logo originally (unless... *gasp* :o you were the Iron March user who produced this logo). Jlevi (talk) 18:31, 16 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Enough material for a BLP of Slavros?

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I am considering starting a BLP on Slavros (the founder of Iron March). There seem to be enough strong sources to develop an article. Would this be reasonable? Is there a good way to integrate these materials here, or would a full section on Slavros be unbalanced on this page?

If I had to pick the strongest couple of sources in a AfD discussion on this page, here are the few I'd choose: [8][9][10] Maybe [11] too.

Jlevi (talk) 03:09, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think BLP might be the best way to go about this, yeah. This is article about the site after all, and there is plenty of material about Slavros. This would be a great opportunity to finally put it together and write a comprehensive article in English. Looking for precedents, Mike Enoch and his blog have separate articles despite of less notable/notorious.
According to the Russian article of his grandfather, leader of Soviet Uzbekistan, he's a descendant of Hasan ibn Ali, grandson of Prophet Mohammad, making him a Sayyid. Quite the credentials for a neo-nazi! Also seems to have written a couple of books. RKT7789 (talk) 04:11, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hey RKT7789! Just to be sure, Slavros doesn't have a non-English article yet, right? Jlevi (talk) 01:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nope.RKT7789 (talk) 05:21, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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