Talk:Ivor Bell

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ivor Bell article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Military / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Irish Republicanism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish Republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish RepublicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish RepublicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish RepublicanismIrish Republicanism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / British / European / Cold War C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	Cold War task force (c. 1945 – c. 1989)

Ireland Mid‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Northern Ireland

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WPBiogaphy 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. --KenWalker | Talk 05:39, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to what definitions could he be both an anarchist and a socialist republican? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I need to do some research in the books I have (I didn't write the article) but it is a well documented fact that certain figures did change their political perspectives over the course of the Troubles. Obviously it needs sourcing, so I'll do some research. One Night In Hackney 23:28, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Libya connection

What relevance does the Libya bomb attack have to Bell? If he served as "ambassador" in the 1970s and early 1980s- what does an attack by the USA on Libya in 1986 have? If Bell was involved before the attack, this has no place here. Astrotrain 23:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reverted the text to version by Mel Ettis, please do not removed sourced material again. One Night In Hackney 23:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If Bell was expelled from the IRA in 1985- what relevance does mentioning a bomb attack by the USA on Libya in 1986 have? Astrotrain 23:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And what is the source referring to in any case- the fact he was a representative in Libya? or the US attack? or both> Astrotrain 23:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the Libyan connection is to be mentioned, we need context. There's no point in simply mentioning the parts we know Bell was directly involved in. The text you are removing was inserted by an administrator to replace the sourced quote you falsely claimed was a violation of WP:BLP, please do not remove it again. One Night In Hackney 00:00, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see how a passage about Bell in an IRA book would mention an incident that happened after he was expelled? I don't think this is being quoted correctly. Astrotrain 00:09, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In that case you are more than welcome to purchase a copy of the book, or borrow one from a library. The ISBN number and author are provided. One Night In Hackney 00:10, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I shouldn't have to go and look up the book- references should be clear. An event occuring after his term cannot be relevant. Is there not a reason why Libya would have helped the IRA before 1986 (the Libyan Embassy siege in London after the murder of Yvonne Fletcher for instance? Obviously they did supply arms to the IRA before 1986. Astrotrain 23:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The reference is clear, it gives you the author, title and ISBN number. That is everything that is required for citing a book. Are you somehow suggesting that because the text of the book isn't available online it isn't a reliable source? One Night In Hackney 23:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not questioning anything about the book- all I am saying is that this section does not make sense. As the book is not avaliable on-line I cannot verify what it actually says. Do you have the book? Is it being quoted correctly? Astrotrain 10:13, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I have the book and it is being quoted correctly. Even the controversial quote about Thatcher is there in full. If you do not have a copy of the book please assume good faith. One Night In Hackney 12:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is appropriate in a case like this to transcribe the key portion of the text onto the talk page, do that the interpretation can be verified. Nothing wrong withlhelping each other to see the sources. DGG 00:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a good idea- would save me raking round the bargin bin of Waterstones! Astrotrain 20:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll type up the relevant parts in the next day or so. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. We do still need to include some things on pre-1985 Libya activities to explain why they were involved in Bell's tenure. Astrotrain 00:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

abstention

What does it mean - "Bell's dismissal from the IRA was due to more than his opposition to the move on abstention"? Who abstaining from what? Is it helpful to quote badly written incomprehensible nonsense? Or is it just hauled out of context? - Kittybrewster 22:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See here, he opposed the growing role of Sinn Féin. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cash for politics

What does it mean - He "opposed the use of cash for politics"? - Kittybrewster 22:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As above, mostly. He believed that funds being used by Sinn Féin should have been used by the IRA to obtain weaponry and suchlike. I'll clarify that and the other unclear part in the next day or so also. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 22:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have rewrtten the article to some extent. I have it saved to a word document because I was cough*blocked*cough and will add it later this evening.--Vintagekits 13:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Subject a Protestant?

Can someone provide any evidence that Ivor Bell is/was a Protestant?--Damac 23:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC) I was about to say is that not just common knowledge but most people wouldn't believe there were any prods in the IRA, it definitely says hes a protestant in "A Secret History of the IRA" if that counts? This article probably should say he was a protestant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.7.244.89 (talk) 03:28, 2 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have read the book and cannot see where it says that. I am removing the claim until a proper citation is provided.94.5.138.159 (talk) 12:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]