Talk:János-hegy

Requested move 10 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus (closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 00:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

János-hegy → János Hill – per WP:RECOGNIZABILITY, and WP:COMMONNAME, proposing move to most common English name --evrik ^(talk) 04:12, 10 June 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. b uidhe 01:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support (as nom) --evrik ^(talk) 03:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The common name in reliable English-languages sources is the Hungarian name, not some Godawful mishmash of Hungarian and English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Not sure what you mean, it seems to have a fair number of its here: https://www.google.com/search?q=Janos+Hill%2C+budapest --evrik ^(talk) 03:33, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The first page of results clearly shows János-hegy as the common name, with János Hill sometimes listed as an alternative. No evidence the latter is its common name. But in any case, travel sites like this are not especially reliable sources. Guidebooks are much more reliable, and they mostly use the Hungarian name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:59, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - "Go Beyond in Budapest: János Hill's Erzsébet Lookout Tower".

https://www.britannica.com/place/Janos-Hill

--evrik ^(talk) 06:23, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- - - - Which proves what precisely? I could cite any number of sites from a Google search that call it János-hegy! -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:30, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Encyclopedia Britannica. --evrik ^(talk) 15:08, 17 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        And? We are not obliged to follow the Britannica. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:35, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        It is used by a great number of English language sites, including the authoritative EB. --evrik ^(talk) 16:09, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        It is not used by many more. The EB is not, I'm afraid, especially authoritative as far as naming is concerned. It has a tendency to translate unnecessarily and not follow the common name conventions that Wikipedia does. -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:31, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are now offering opinion in place of fact. In the English language, the EB is a very authoritative source. So, the Eb and multiple sources support this move. --evrik ^(talk) 23:48, 18 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- You don't seem to understand that Wikipedia has its own guidelines re naming, whereas the EB has different standards. We are not bound by the EB's standards any more than they are bound by ours. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:22, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I do understand. I think I have met the burden of proof. --evrik ^(talk) 12:25, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Not at all, given you seem to be claiming that the EB overrides all the other sources that use the Hungarian name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:33, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - That's not what I said. To restate, this should be renamed per WP:RECOGNIZABILITY, and WP:COMMONNAME, proposing move to most common English name. In English, Janos Hill gets far more hist in a google search, like this one: https://www.google.com/search?q=Janos+Hill%2C+budapest. The English version is also used in reputable sources like the Encyclopedia Britannica. --evrik ^(talk) 12:41, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Are there plenty of English-language sites that use Janos Hill? Yes. Are there plenty that use János-hegy? Yes. This proves nothing other than the fact that both are used on English-language sites, which are mostly aimed at tourists visiting Budapest and are not especially reliable. It proves absolutely nothing about the hill's name in reliable English-language sources. The Bradt Guide to Hungary uses János hegy. The Rough Guide to Hungary and Rough Guide to Budapest use János-hegy. The Michelin Guide to Budapest uses János-hegy. The Fodor Guide to Hungary uses Jánoshegy. These are all reliable sources. They are not trumped by usage in the EB. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:19, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad we agree that there are, "there plenty of English-language sites that use Janos Hill." That really should be enough. This is the English wiki. --evrik ^(talk) 13:51, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but that doesn't mean we translate everything into English. We use the most common name in reliable English-language sources, not random websites that come up on a Google search. Many of us native English speakers are quite capable of handling foreign names! -- Necrothesp (talk) 23:06, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The EB is not a random source, nor were the other websites. In fact the EB is very reliable. Right now you are arguing against facts. --evrik ^(talk) 23:38, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.