Talk:Jar Jar Binks

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Darth Jar Jar[edit]

Jar Jar or commonly known as JS in certain circles I just removed some websites about that. I then googled it and saw lots of media coverage. Should it get a mention here or at the sith article? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:25, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

As WP:FRINGE, I vote "no". --IJBall (contribstalk) 07:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
The Darth Jar-Jar theory is at least somewhat notable to the Sith article, though. Maybe a simple mention in the "In popular culture" section might work? Nothing major, but a passing mention of the theory would be appropriate coverage; after all, the theory explicitly states that Jar-Jar, if the theory is correct, would be a Sith Lord (or at least Force-sensitive). So some coverage would be appropriate on the Sith article, an entire section would not be. Raptormimus456 (talk) 14:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
I removed the Darth Jar Jar information from the intro paragraph. It's essentially fan fiction, certainly not worth going in the intro.
Firstly, you should sign your posts. Secondly, there's a difference between covering random fan fiction and covering fan fiction that has recieved notable amounts of coverage. We have an entire damn article about the fanfiction trope of the Mary Sue, so I don't see how fan fiction, especially one that has become widely adknowledged by a number of sources like this should be left out of the intro to the article it's related to. And thirdly, this isn't "fan-fiction", either; it's a fan theory. Fanfiction and fan theories are two distinct forms of fan media.
Besides that, vandals are going to keep adding it to this article's intro regardless if you think it's not notable for the intro paragraph (which it is, considering people like J.J Abrams himself have made mention of it). May as well do it ourselves and save us from the constant reverting hassle. Raptormimus456 (talk) 14:03, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
It seems like a violation of WP:FRINGE. It getting coverage pop media coverage doesn't make it not fringe. JJ Abrams mentioning it doesn't make it not fringe either. Maybe you can put it somewhere, but putting it in the lead seems like giving a fringe theory undo attention. According to WP:LEAD, material in the lead should reflect its underlying importance to the topic. A trivial piece of fan fiction is not of any comparable importance to the other material in the introduction (where he appears, and the associated controversy behind him). By noting the fan fiction in the lead you are implicitly saying it is one of the most important things about Jar Jar Binks.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by bringing up the Mary Sue article. I'm not suggetsing that topics like fanfiction itself, or its tropes, are not notable enough for Wikipedia. Just that this particular theory about Jar Jar Binks, and the flash-in-the-pan media coverage it had, is not notable enough for the lead. Theodds (talk) 23:41, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
To be considered "flash-in-the-pan" means that the theory would have just been a small fad that wouldn't gain all that much attention in the long run, which obviously has not happened. And yes, it is one of the most important aspects of Jar Jar Binks, because it's one of the most prominent uses of the character since the CG Clone Wars show used him. It's not fringe if it's considered notable. And WP:FRINGE even states this (emphasis mine):

"The neutral point of view policy requires that all majority and significant-minority positions be included in an article. However, it also requires that they not be givenundue weight. A conjecture that has not received critical review from the scientific community or that has been rejected may be included in an article about a scientific subject only if other high-quality reliable sources discuss it as an alternative position. Ideas supported only by a tiny minority may be explained in articles devoted to those ideas if they are notable."

WP:LEAD says this:

"The emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources. Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article. As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs and be carefully sourced as appropriate."

Mentioning the Reddit theory, something that has recently gained a lot of steam and is generally quite notable, into the last portion of the lead in a completely neutral stance with a small paragraph (just reporting that it exists, essentially) is not violating WP:LEAD or WP:FRINGE, and in fact is in line with those very policies. Raptormimus456 (talk) 15:13, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
It is violating WP:Lead; the lead is meant to summarize the article. Like you noted, WP:Lead states, "Significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article." The topic and amount of text in question makes it significant in detail. And if it's a "quite notable" theory, it is significant detail. I first reverted you because you'd added a Reddit thread as a source, which is a WP:Reliable sources violation. Leontes later reverted you, seemingly because the addition is a lead violation. I reverted you the second time because it's not lead material. It's also a WP:Due weight violation by being placed in the lead. As seen here, I moved the material to the Conception section because it fits there best. It does not need its own section, which would be a WP:Due weight violation. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:25, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
"Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources. Giving due weight and avoiding giving undue weight mean that articles should not give minority views or aspects as much of or as detailed a description as more widely held views or widely supported aspects. Generally, the views of tiny minorities should not be included at all, except perhaps in a "see also" to an article about those specific views. For example, the article on the Earth does not directly mention modern support for the Flat Earth concept, the view of a distinct minority; to do so would give undue weight to it." - Straight from the WP:NPOV page.

Note this line; "Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources."

To be considered a violation of WP:NPOV, the information would need to be considered a tiny minority; something that the theory no longer is, considering how much it's blown up over the internet. It's like removing the EU stuff of Boba Fett escaping the Sarlacc Pit from his article just because it's a tiny minority of the Star Wars mythos that isn't canon anymore. I'd say having some coverage of the Sith Jar-Jar theory in the lead is fine enough as it is. Raptormimus456 (talk) 18:44, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Raptormimus456, I really don't know what more to state to you on this, except that I am right. WP:Newbies or otherwise inexperienced Wikipedia editors often think they know better than the more experienced Wikipedia editors, but, in cases like these, they are wrong. The WP:Neutrality policy you quoted concerns any minority viewpoint, not just tiny minorities. When it comes to this Darth Jar Jar theory, it is a minority viewpoint that does not need much weight in the article. The vast majority of literature on Jar Jar Binks does not concern this theory. If you really want to test if you are correct on your views, start a WP:RfC on the matter. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 21:37, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Possible Original Research[edit]

The second paragraph in Speculations of Antagonism (which itself seems to be a clunky and unnecessary section, although that has already been debated) looks to be original research. It only has one citation, which is a link to someone's youtube account.

>The initial hints that Jar Jar Binks was to have a major role in the Prequel trilogy is consistent with him "rhyming" with Yoda. His clumsiness followed textbook examples of Zui Quan combined with the instinctive "Force" use of Bink from Xanth. Apart from Bink, there are strong indicators the character's motivations and real power is based on the Mule / jester Magnifico from Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, a common source of inspiration for George Lucas when writing for the Star Wars setting.[34]

Jabertsohn (talk) 23:33, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Minor edit needed[edit]

I request that a very minor edit be made to the The Phantom Menace subsection: the last paragraph needs the The Phantom Menace text italicized. Thank you in advance.

114.75.76.177 (talk) 10:29, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

 Done Thank you very much for requesting this edit, I have gone ahead and done it for you 114.75.76.177. If you ever notice anything like this in the future or other edits that you wish to have made and cannot edit the page in question, please do feel free to make future requests Face-smile.svg. --TheSandDoctor (talk) 15:22, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2017[edit]

Add the information provided in the "Speculations of antagonism" section between the first and second paragraphs. The current article provides little to no evidence supporting Jar Jar's possible antagonist role. The information added provides reasoning and knowledge that supports the theory of Jar Jar's antagonism. Delete the the existing sentance, " His clumsiness followed textbook examples of Zui Quan combined with the instinctive "Force" use of Bink from Xanth.", as it is information I am adding back revised and would be repeated information if not.

Skilled Warrior/ Zui Quan Inspiration[edit]

George Lucas created the Jedi based on inspiration of the Shaolin monks and their martial arts. One such art used by the Shaolin monks, which Jar Jar is speculated to have mastered, is known as Zui Quan, or Drunken Fist wushu. Zui Quan is a martial art where by using bodily momentum and weight distribution, the user distracts the opponent by appearing drunk or clueless by tripping and “sloshing”, later retaliating and striking the foe unexpectedly. In The Phantom Menace during scenes of the Battle of Naboo, Jar Jar, seemingly acting a fool, manages to take down an entire line of droids and a droid battle tank using techniques practiced in Zui Quan. Jar Jar gains relevance in the aftermath of the battle being treated a war hero, eventually becoming a senator for his planet Naboo along side Palpatine.[1]

Force User[edit]

Another important aspect in Jar Jar’s antagonist theory is that he is trained in the Force. During Jar Jar’s screen time in the Star Wars prequels, Jar Jar can be seen performing various skills previously only seen performed by Jedi in the movies. When Qui-gon and Obi-wan first run into Jar Jar at the beginning of The Phantom Menace, Jar Jar is seen executing a twenty foot summersault into the air. Never before in Star Wars has a character performed such a stunt other than Jedi or other such force users. Later, when rescuing Queen Amidala, Qui-gon, Obi-wan, and Jar Jar ambush a group of guard droids, dropping from a higher balcony. When the three jump, Jar Jar is on Qui-gon’s left hand side. But when the scene cuts, Jar Jar appears falling to the Jedi’s right, with the droids continuing to fire on Jar Jar’s original spot. The theory states that Jar Jar uses the force to propel himself and catch the droids off guard (A move seen previously used by Jedi in other Star Wars movies). This provides physical evidence that Jar Jar performs similar maneuvers and skills only ever seen performed before by Jedi and other Force users.

Mind Control[edit]

More evidence supporting Jar Jar’s knowledge of the force is in what appears to be his use of Jedi Mind Tricks. This is a technique used by Jedi to control thoughts and behavior of subjects, often performed with a slight wave of the hand at the target. Jar Jar is seen waving his hand before being awarded rank of general, while talking about a promotion in the senate with Padme, and when ordering that Chancellor Palpatine receive full emergency powers to the Galactic Senate. All of these events play crucial roles in Jar Jar gaining power and manipulating the plot to (in theory) favor the dark side. Iancastellano9 (talk) 09:50, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. That's a lot of POV that's sourced to one Reddit page so I'm not inclined to add it without consensus. —KuyaBriBriTalk 14:15, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "[Theory] Jar Jar Binks was a trained Force user, knowing Sith collaborator, and will play a central role in The Force Awakens • r/StarWars". reddit.

Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2019[edit]

Please change the Wookieepedia link in External Links to starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jar_Jar_Binks, seeing as Wikia and Fandom merged recently. Mrxandman88 (talk) 05:59, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: The current external link redirects there. Gangster8192 01:15, 17 May 2019 (UTC)