Talk:Joan Campins

Island/Province/Autonomous Community birthplace information for Balearic football players

The Balearic Islands are a province of Spain, an autonomous community of Spain and, strictly from a geographic perspective, an archipelago consisting of four main islands-- Majorca (Mallorca in Spanish and Catalan), Minorca (Menorca in Spanish and Catalan), Ibiza (Eivissa in Catalan) and Formentera. Only the Catalan-language names are official (and thus Ibiza may best be known as such in English as this is also its Spanish name, but only Eivissa is official). The Balearic Islands, in addition, are a "nationality" in Spanish constitutional terms.

In the infobox, given that the "Balearic Islands" constitutes four separate pieces of data-- province, autonomous community, archipelago, and nationality, I have added it to Balearic footballers generally (it should be noted that "Balearic footballers" is already a Wikipedia category, one I had no hand in creating). Readers can interpret the addition as a geographic or political or national heritage indication, or some or all of these. In all cases, readers will note immediately the birth place is not on the Spanish mainland, but is rather something akin to the US equivalent of Hawaii.

One exception I have made is the most important and most numerous exception-- the capital and largest city, Palma or Palma de Mallorca (listed in Wikipedia as Palma, Majorca-- writing it in this fashion was an option, but does not accord with Spanish practice). For Palma, I have merely ensured the full name is listed, such that it is clear that we are referring to the Palma on the island of Mallorca and thus in the Balearic Islands. Similar exceptions can be made for Ciutadella, the largest city on Minorca, which can be made clearly Balearic merely by using the full name Ciutadella de Menorca. Ibiza presents a slightly different case-- it's largest city, similar to the island itself, is called simply Ibiza (and thus officially Eivissa). Though the question of whether the Spanish/English unofficial name for the town should be used, or the Catalan official name should be used is an interesting one, references to Ibiza, which redirect to Ibiza (town), need not have "Balearic Islands" added for the same reasons as Ciutadella de Menora or Palma de Mallorca. It's obviously where they are; that is, on Majora, Minorca or Ibiza in the Balearic Islands.

Thus the addition of "Balearic Islands" as a practical matter only affects relatively small towns whose locations will be unknown even to readers otherwise well acquainted with Spain. RangerRichard (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Please.

Provide some RELIABLE SOURCES and include SOMETHING SUBSTANCIAL instead of adding a text which we can easily understand by going to Balearic Islands. In Joan Campins, Barcelona's official web says PALMA, MAJORCA, and you add an unreliable source to prove the contrary? You can work this way in the Catalan WP, but it's not the way we work here.

And also, this is an ENGLISH WP, not a Spanish/Catalan one, so only PALMA is 100% correct (as is the NAME OF THE PAGE). Thanks, MYS77 ^✉ 19:02, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Hello there, MYS

Thank you for writing and your comments. I'm a geographer, professsionally a park ranger, and am a bit confused by the fervor of folks when what I consider to be rather innocuous, helpful and encyclopedic changes are made to Spanish footballer pages. You'll have to bear with me here.

1. It's true "Palma" is 100% comprehensible, but much in the same way "Philly" and "DC" are-- they are short forms. "Palma de Mallorca," at the very least, is no less correct, and it has the benefit of being the long form of the name and indicating where it is, what island it happens to be on. You suggest that "Palma" is used in the English name, but this is really true-- it's listed as Palma, Majorca, which I would call a hybrid form. I'm happy to use that, though I don't believe it's the best form.

2. There seems to be some confusion about where Campins was "born." I'm happy to add a note that some sources list his birthplace as elsewhere-- in fact, I was planning on doing the same for Palma (I won't go through with you my thoughts on why it seemed less likely a smaller place name would be incorrect, but it just did. Reasonable people can disagree here.)

3. I hear much about "consistency" when it comes to footballers, but I don't see that. Footballers in Spain are treated according to geographic rules no others from Spain are treated to. I'm not certain why any attempt to provide more information is greeted with such great suspicion. Did I mention I'm from Alaska? I'm not of Spanish descendent. I'm not of Catalan descendent. I do, however, think geography is important. It's likewise strange to me-- glad you point this out-- that often in both Spanish and Catalan Wikipedia, footballers, in their infoboxes and text, are treated the same, but in English Wikipedia, there's a differential treatment-- a treatment which does not add information, but which subtracts it. Again, folks use the word consistency to describe this, but it's merely an internal consistency, not a consistency that hooks up Spanish footballers as shown in English Wikipedia without of that very narrow confine. It surely is not a consistency that comports with their treatment in either the Spanish or Catalan communities (and often is at odds with both). That's not consistency. That's ... peculiarity. Indeed it's very peculiar.

4. I would suggest you do as I have done-- not engage in an whole-sale reversion of my changes. I have not added "Balearic Islands" here willy-nilly, I have carefully looked at each entry to come to careful conclusions. I would suggest you do the same, else you will appear as partisan with an ax to grind, rather than as someone interested in taking a careful look at each entry individually.

Thanks for your help. I've taken your comments off of my page, and have added them to the entry for Campins. As necessary, I will add them to other entries.RangerRichard (talk) 19:36, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

@RangerRichard: I'm a C# programmer, so our works does not have any links with football at all :)

Campins' name MAY contain the Catalan "i" (as some Brazilians contains "de" or "da" in their names), but none of our current reliable sources say it. If you have one reliable source to provide, feel free to add. Thanks, MYS77 ^✉ 01:30, 25 November 2014 (UTC)