Talk:Johannes Ockeghem

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Number of motets[edit]

To the anon editor from Belgium who reduced the number of Ockeghem motets from 10 to 5: I am aware the the number of motets and chansons attributed to Ockeghem shrinks from time to time. Grove (1980) lists 9 plus the song motet on the death of Binchois as being solidly by Ockeghem. If you are aware of more current scholarship showing that some of these have been pulled away I'd love to know. Also, I notice you changed the link from Dutch School to Netherlandish school: the current article "Dutch school" has the basic info on the Netherlandish school, but if you would rather move the article to one of that name, let's talk about it--the name "Dutch school" has bugged me for a while now, and I'd be inclined to support such a move. Antandrus 19:37, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Greetings. I am not the writer to whom you addressed your question, but I thought I would add that Martin Picker also lists five authentic motets of Ockeghem. See M. Picker, Johannes Ockeghem and Jacob Obrecht: A Guide to Research (New York: Garland Publishing Co., 1988) pp. 27-28. Wexler (Collected Works III, 1992) does as well, but gives slightly more credence to the possibility that Vivit Dominus may belong as well. (It is listed as an authentic work, but the authenticity seems to be dismissed in a note.) I have used Picker's seminal work as a guide in formulating my own (cautious) authenticated list; however, I realize that additional research may result in other works eventually being accepted as part of the Ockeghem canon (e.g., Caeleste beneficium, Gaude Maria, and Vivit Dominus). Pseudo-Ockeghem 17:30, 21 June 2007.

Composer project review[edit]

I've reviewed this article as part of the Composers project review of its B-class articles. This is content-wise a fine article. It primarily lacks images (e.g. the one from Chigi Codex, but it needs 3-4), and inline citations sufficient to pass a formal review.

I would support an A rating for this article if those things are improved. Magic♪piano 23:01, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


There is no sourcing that indicates how or why this is believed to be Ockeghem. I have never seen this presented as a possible likeness. There is an illustration from a manuscript that was always assumed to be Ockeghem, but this is not it. I am happy to be convinced, but there needs to be some explanation of the source of this image or else it should be taken down.RobtCSimon (talk) 13:08, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

I was skeptical at first too, but back in March when someone added it I did a little research, and left it alone. See Reinhard Strohm, "Portrait of a Musician", in Johannes Ockeghem: Actes du XLe Colloque international des d'études humanistes [Tours, 1997] ed. Philippe Vendrix (Paris, Klinckseick, 1998), pp 167-172. If you look at the full size portrait (in the De Young Museum, San Francisco) you see some music on the headdress, which is "Ma bouche rit et ma pensee pleure". This is all rather recent, of course, and the identification is tentative. The picture, in full color and turned the other way (this one is mirrored) is also on the cover of Musica antiqua: Actuele informatie over oude muziek, 14/2 (May 1997). Antandrus (talk) 13:52, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Johannes Ockeghem/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Last edited at 22:58, 22 December 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 20:04, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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